Hello

Have the opportunity to purchase a new open box M32 or New M21 for the same price. Not concerned with volume, warm up time, or electrical consumption.

Not sure if the M32 has pre infusion. A google search has not revealed much.

Keep in mind this will be my first machine. Does anyone have enough familiarity with the M32 to forward recommendations.

The Elektra Sixties A1 is a candidate....so comments would be welcome.

$3k is the budget for the espresso machine (grinder is a different budget), with that said does anyone have a advice on what you would do based on your experiences.

I have focused on HX type machines, but I have not ruled out DB's. I guess I have migrated to the La Cimbala's because of their rep, build quality and SS boilers.

Thanks

Mike

Neither of the Cimbali's nor the Elektra have preinfusion. If you want it, you'll need to buy the Junior "Casa" from Chris Coffee.

Having had a Junior the one thing I didn't like about it was the limited cup clearance. You will not have this limitation with the Elektra. Also, I think you mean Elektra T1, not A1, as the A1 has been out of production for some time now.

Any of these machines are easy to service and will last you for a LONG time. Pick based on which one trips your trigger, because there is no wrong choice.

The M32 Bistro DT/1 is a high volume, commercial, volumetric dosing (aka "dosatronic"), single group machine with a 10L boiler, regular steam, dosed "turbo steam," "smart boiler technology" (means recovery is so fast there's no way the fastest barista handling the heaviest load can beat it), a card reader, and an LED readout. The M32 uses push button control for its steam and water delivery. A boiler that big requires a lot of juice, consequently the M32 runs on 220V.

La Cimbali no longer lists the M32 on its website, but I see it listed on a few Cimbali retailers' sites, notably Pasquini's. I suspect Cimbali no longer makes the M32, but there's still some NOS around.

The M21 Junior DT/1 is a low volume, commercial, dosatronic, single group machine with a 2.5L boiler, and regular steaming only. Steam and water control is by ordinary, rotary valves. It is a 110V 15A machine operating on ordinary household current.

I'm not the world's fastest "barista," and under normal circumstances, even entertaining, I can't beat the M21. In the interests of complete honesty, the only time I ever beat its steam production was pitcher after pitcher of milk for Christmas hot chocolate -- and then it only took a couple of minutes to come back to temp/pressure.

The M32 doesn't have pre-infusion; and neither -- for that matter -- do most M21 variants. The only La Cimbali with pre-infusion is the M21 Casa. Chris is NOT the only dealer to sell the Casa. Clive, Studio LX, and probably some other dealers do as well. But not every Cimbali dealer handles the Casa (Pasquini doesn't), so make sure you know what you're getting before you order.

Parenthetically, (I bought mine three years ago, one of the very first Casas, from Chris; based in large part on advice from Mary. Great dealer, great tech service, great buying advice.)

The Elektra T1 is a medium-volume, commercial, "volumetric" machine with a 5L boiler. Merle is mistaken about whether or not the T1 pre-infuses. The T1's group has a pre-infusion reservoir and pre-infuses in the same way as an E-61. In fact, it's fair to say that the T1's group is like an E-61, but slightly better all around. The T1 runs on 115V 20A. In my uninformed opinion, once the electrician leaves, the primary difference between the T1 and the Casa is looks.

Two other HXs with pre-infusion in roughly the same price/performance class as the Casa and T1 are the Astoria Divina (110V 20A) and Nuova Simonelli Appia Volumetric (110V 15A).

Rich

To do pre infusion you could add a delay on make relay on the pump. That way when you hit the brew switch the group solenoids will open and the line pressure will preinfuse then after the programmed delay on the relay the pump will kick in for infusion. The Elektra uses an E61 like group and has an expansion chamber to allow for a slower pressure ramp at the puck but with the rotary pump the system comes to pressure in about 1 second. I was tossing around the same considerations several years ago. I ended up with the Elektra A3 which is the same as the T1 but no volumetric dosing.

One big consideration is the power draw. The Elektra will need a dedicated 20 amp circuit. Key word here is dedicated. It really needs all 20 amps. Put a grinder on the same circuit and grind while the machine is heating and you will blow the breaker. Had my Elektra for years, no regrets or desire to upgrade to anything else.

Folks

Your input is very much appreciated. When I started this quest I never anticipated making a decision would be so divided.

HX's, Db's they both appear to have their pro and cons. Which one is best, there appears to be no correct answer.

I am drawn to the HX's models, but cannot neglect the current market trend toward DB's, even the high end mfg's most touted models are DB's, which adds doubt to the HX option.

Ideally, if there were a DB with SS boilers in the $3k range that would be the cats meow.

One item I am concerned about, and I do not read much about, is the no-lead issue. Today domestic water systems piping, faucets, etc are required to meet NSF 61 Annex G (no-lead) requirements. An appliance that heats water and passes through metallic hardware is sure to be an issue with lead leaching into the water.

In my line of work I have had a lot of exposure to these issues, and most people would be surprised if they new how many components of a domestic water system that are perceived lead free are not indeed lead free.

Anyway, if someone knows of a DB SS boiler system in the $3K range, that would be great if you could share the info

Be Safe


Mike