Espresso pour is blonding after 15 seconds - Page 2

February 15th, 2014, 8:49 pm

Just to clarify, I don't want to come across as having knocked your gear. You can definitely throw money at the problem and fix it, no doubt, be it with sieves or a hand grinder. . .If that is indeed the problem. It is after all just my suspicion.

The other thing you can do is just live with shorter shots. It looked like the first half was fairly solid. Especially given the tamp. I used a much lesser setup than yours for 12 years and have pulled many delicious 16-18s shots with it.

I guess my point is if you want to make pretty videos then money is going to get you there. But go by your taste buds (or hers) and just stop when it blondes, adjusting the grind to taste.

I'm sorry, I should have said that above.

February 16th, 2014, 3:27 pm

...also, "melted snicker's bar" is pure genius. I dont know if that is your own creation or vernacular as I don't get out much, but I am stealing it.

February 17th, 2014, 6:09 pm

happycat wrote:The encore is going to make life more challenging when it comes to any kind of coffee prep.

To get it to work with espresso, I had to do lots of chopstick swirling of the grounds to fluff them up. You might find things a bit easier by upping your dose and coarsening your grind. A superfine grind doesn't mean it is consistently distributed to allow for an even, thick pour. It could be chunky. The encore also traps lots of fine coffee in its chute and in transit between burr and chute. Grinding beans supercoarse can clear this out before grinding finer.

Life got way easier when I bought a Pharos for espresso and a used Bunn G1 for other brewing. While a syphon could be overly sharp or fiddly with encore grounds, with the hunn it was consistently better, largely I suspect to producing fewer fines. To some extent i think technology can expose weaknesses elsewhere in your process. The pharos is more forgiving in terms of grinds that work with espresso... I rarely need to adjust it. The bunn is more forgiving of imperfectly roasted beans. I feel the encore exposes more weaknesses and difficulties and thus life is more about trying to work around those things vs making coffee to drink.

I struggled with the encore for months trying to make it work and justify the money i spent on it but now it sits on a shelf. I haven't reached the point where i can sell it and take a huge loss and feel ok about it. I took it travelling but found my syphons were not as pleasant as with my g1 back home.

How does the Pharos compare with the Vario in terms of grind? I might as well spend 200 more to get a Vario. I am not against spending money, I just don't want to end up with a grand worth of equipment, but no skills/technique/knowledge to work it. Im more of a "work it" kinda guy, but if you tell me the Encore truly sucks, than I have no option but to upgrade to a better grinder.

therabidweasel wrote:Just to clarify, I don't want to come across as having knocked your gear. You can definitely throw money at the problem and fix it, no doubt, be it with sieves or a hand grinder. . .If that is indeed the problem. It is after all just my suspicion.

The other thing you can do is just live with shorter shots. It looked like the first half was fairly solid. Especially given the tamp. I used a much lesser setup than yours for 12 years and have pulled many delicious 16-18s shots with it.

I guess my point is if you want to make pretty videos then money is going to get you there. But go by your taste buds (or hers) and just stop when it blondes, adjusting the grind to taste.

I'm sorry, I should have said that above.

Well put. I don't specifically want to pull shots for pretty videos, but from what I know is that 17-18 grams of coffee extracted to 2 oz in 25-30 second will yield decent espresso. With not much taste-testing at my disposal, those numbers are what I shoot for.

therabidweasel wrote:...also, "melted snicker's bar" is pure genius. I dont know if that is your own creation or vernacular as I don't get out much, but I am stealing it.

Go ahead. I think I read it on one of the other threads on this site.

February 18th, 2014, 8:30 am

I can't say how the Pharos compares to the Baratza Vario, but I can say that it is at least equal to the grind produced by my $1500 MK K30 Vario. I have used Nate42's Pharos, which has been painstakingly aligned and it produces phenomenal shots. It's easily the best value in espresso.

I tend to be a bit disgusted by the OE fan boy gushing that goes on on this site, but I can't say it isn't deserved. That said, I would not have a Pharos as my only grinder for several reasons unique to me, including the fact that I am unable to turn it right now for medical reasons.

February 20th, 2014, 5:49 pm

So during the past couple of days, I have tried 2 different beans (less than 2 weeks old), tried various grind and tamp settings. I am at a point where the pour starts very well - I can even see some of the striping. As it pours through.

However, invariably it blondes and gushes before the 25 second mark. The weird thing is, after gushing for 2-4 seconds, it goes back to the regular(correct?) flow rate.

What am I doing wrong?

#16: Post by **cmin** » February 20th, 2014, 5:57 pm

It's not what "your doing wrong", your problem is the Encore, it's not capable for espresso. Even if modded/shimmed to wear it can choke, just b/c a grinder can choke out a machine doesn't mean it's good for espresso (even a cheap $50 grinder can choke b/c of all the fines/dust they make). I think a lot of people starting out get that confused that espresso = fine grind, and even cheap ones will grind into talcum powder. Encore was made for coarse and it's "Espresso" grinding was meant for pressurized portafilter machines, not real machines like your Le'Lit. It won't have the grind quality, consistency, or fines control that an espresso burr set does. That's why you'll see poor early blonding shots that vary b/c of consistency of the puck.

If you want to stick to Baratza need to step up to the Preciso or Vario. You already mentioned the Vario, you'd see a huge difference going to the Vario for espresso, even the Preciso for that matter. Vario is a performance bargain for an electric grinder, you'd have to go way up in price to get something that performs better in the cup. If you don't mind hand grinding though, like mentioned you have the Pharos and it's titan burr set.

#17: Post by **Nate42** » February 21st, 2014, 2:36 pm

I'll agree, the ultimate problem is probably your grinder. Encore is not really adequate for good espresso. Of course, you are mostly doing milk drinks, and only you can decide what is "good enough" for your own needs. The gushing you describe sounds like channeling. WDT (search the site for info, basically stir the grinds in your portafilter with something skinny) the heck out of it to improve distribution and see if you can at least get a consistent flowrate. Since you can't make fine grind adjustment, you'll have to set the grind "close enough" and adjust the dose from there. Use an accurate scale and dose by weight.

If you can't get where you want to be using those techniques and a little practice, then you are going to need to upgrade your grinder.