Santoker 500/Revolution 500 Roaster - Roasting Questions / Techniques / Profiles

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
dogjamboree
Posts: 258
Joined: 12 years ago

#1: Post by dogjamboree »

Hi,

I started this thread because I have some specific questions about roasting with this roaster that probably don't belong in a review thread. Some of these were going to be included in an email directly to Dustin, but I figured it would be better to ask them in a public forum (one more chance to embarass myself, after all!). Also, I'm sure some of these questions could be answers by someone other than Dustin, even though they came up through the course of learning how to use this machine.

Before going into my specific questions though, I'm wondering if anyone with general knowledge of the roaster world can tell me which roasters out there are most similar to the Revolution 500 in terms of design? Having come from a Behmor 1600 -> Quest M3, I don't understand other machines enough to know whether they are roughly comparable (only that I can't afford them!). Even if the design isn't identical, I could still see some value in perusing forums for useful nuggets.

And now, my questions:

-Dustin, would you be willing to go into a little detail in how you came to position (and choose) your aftermarket thermoucouples? I'm assuming there was some trial and error involved, and while I'm sure I'll have to go through some of my own, seeing others' results would be valuable. Also, was it just support for Artisan you were after, or were there other shortcomings that lead you to install your own thermocouples?

I'm also very eager to start using Artisan again, but my immediate motivation is getting past what seems like an inaccurate BT reading (per my previous post in the review thread, first crack happening in the range of 175-185c.) I'm going to investigate whether bending the stock probe to make better bean contact is feasible, and also whether changing the drum RPM's has any effect. I haven't tried comparing the room temperature reading against another thermometer, but I'm assuming it's a placement issue and not a faulty probe itself.

-When warming the roaster up, is there any reason you wouldn't want to max out the heat to speed things up? Also, in your youtube video Dustin, you warm your roaster up with the airflow damper set to 7 -- is that because you feel it's bad for the roaster to warm it up with less airflow, or does it somehow help with the warm-up?

-I'm scared to play with the buttons on the temperature displays without understanding what they do. Is there any documentation out there that would help me understand the various options / settings?

-I'm still trying to understand the effect of airflow on temperature in the various parts of the roaster, especially as compared to what I learned (and now have to forget!) on the Quest. I seem to remember TomC mentioning this as a possible handicap :)

At one point during a roast yesterday, my BT was higher than my ET. On the Quest, it would be almost impossible for that to happen. Apparently it's not so weird on this machine?

That's all I have for now. I'll update this thread with any specific lesson I learn through my further roasting experiments.

Thanks,

Frank

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SAS
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#2: Post by SAS »

my BT was higher than my ET. On the Quest, it would be almost impossible for that to happen.
That happens on my Quest many times but not always. Exothermic reaction heat?
LMWDP #280
Running on fumes.

Zircote
Posts: 53
Joined: 15 years ago

#3: Post by Zircote »

Frank,
I tried warming up my roaster as per the video also, but with a slow result.
I have since tried turning the gas to 3 on the gauge, closed the air down to 1.5, you do need to keep that exhaust outside, and slowing the drum down to 20rpm. This works well for me.
After the warm up of about 10-12 min the temps seem stable.
Just remember to crank up the drum speed before you start a roast.

For the temp displays, they are PIDs. The BT unit, on mine the upper one, displays only the temp of the probe.
The ET unit displays the temp but also activates the alarm and cuts off the ignition and gas if it reaches the preset level.
I did a internet search for the specific Omron unit user manual and found out how to switch from C to F and to adjust the alarm temp. It was easy enough, but some of the display codes are hard to read. There are no other settings you need to change.

As for air flow, The air flow gauge is 0 or 0% air through the drum to the exhaust to 10 or 100% of the air the fan can move through the drum out the exhaust.
With the BT and ET stable and about equal, the air at 1.5, raise the air to 5 and watch the change. More air pulls the hot air out of the top of the drum.

Taz
Posts: 131
Joined: 11 years ago

#4: Post by Taz »

Dustin does mention, in the video, that his reason for keeping the airflow so high while preheating is to avoid harming the roaster with such high temps in one concentrated area. I'm not totally sure what that would be damaging, but I do trust his word on the matter.

dogjamboree (original poster)
Posts: 258
Joined: 12 years ago

#5: Post by dogjamboree (original poster) »

Thanks for your replies. Today during a roast my BT was 30 degrees higher than my ET, and it wasn't during the crack. Not sure what's going on there, but I'm not completely trusting what the thermocouples are telling me at this point.

I understand not wanting to crank the heat up and run without the exhaust fan on, but there's obviously a continuum between safe and unsafe, and it's hard to know where that is without knowing more about heat ratings on the internals, etc.

Taz
Posts: 131
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#6: Post by Taz »

dogjamboree wrote: I understand not wanting to crank the heat up and run without the exhaust fan on, but there's obviously a continuum between safe and unsafe, and it's hard to know where that is without knowing more about heat ratings on the internals, etc.
Yea, I agree. Maybe dustin will weigh in at some point. Or I guess one of us could just email him as well as he has been quite helpful with any questions i've had so far.

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hankua
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#7: Post by hankua »

My 800n is kind of similar as it's a one pounder gas w/ cast iron drum; blower on top by the chaff collector. I warm up with the gas and damper on a medium setting for @ 15min. During that time I set up my greens in 44oz drink cups by the machine. The roaster is not really warmed up until after the first batch, depending on the weather I keep the gas on high from drop-in to the turn. Subsequent roasts have the gas on low or off during the same phase an indication the machine is still a little cold.

I run back to back roasts and charge 1lb@ 2min after the roasted beans hit the cooling tray (air on high, heat low). The machine cools down from 200-215c to my normal charge temp. 180c quickly. The ET is a dial thermometer and I make sure it stays above a threshold for the charge. Running back to back roasts at set intervals adds another layer of consistency as my machine is set up by the garage door and subject to environmental factors.

dogjamboree (original poster)
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#8: Post by dogjamboree (original poster) »

Thanks Hank -- that's very helpful! I figure there have got to be some lessons to be learned from others roasting on similar machines :)

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hankua
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#9: Post by hankua »

No problem!
What about shut down on the Santoker? My manual advises to shut down below 80c, I cool down lower than that with the gas off/air high. In case your hand charting I have paper logs you can download in PDF/Word that are pretty handy. hankua.wordpress.com

dogjamboree (original poster)
Posts: 258
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#10: Post by dogjamboree (original poster) »

hankua wrote: What about shut down on the Santoker? My manual advises to shut down below 80c, I cool down lower than that with the gas off/air high. hankua.wordpress.com
Good point -- I was wondering about that and forgot to ask. That sounds like a reasonable recommendation. I too have been playing it safe and cooling down to 50c or thereabouts. It's amazing how much heat an iron drum retains!

Frank

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