I have read tons of posts on HB and watched the HB videos. I've also held onto a "Wired" magazine from 2 or 3 years back in which Dan (HB) is quoted along with an editor's choice machine of the Bezzera BZ07. I'm finally ready to take the upgrade step to a HX machine and my upper limit is about $1500. I thought I had a NS Musica purchased for that budget but it fell through. I don't see Bezzera mentioned much. Does anyone think that the Bezzera is the best for the money? I've heard the support may not be great and parts are hard to come by? The NS Oscar is still a possibility but the inability to put on a timer may deter me. Are there other's like the QM Anita or a Rocket Cellini, etc. that are better choices at this price point? I would appreciate any guidance so I don't have buyer's remorse. Also, I plan on pairing it with the Vario (currently have a virtuoso), as it's the best I think I can do for the price point (separate budget) Any guidance and direction would help me a lot. Thanks, Darren.

I can't comment on Bezzera as I do not have any first hand experience with them; certainly not the best nor the worst for the money. One major sticking point is that I would try to find a machine with a rotary pump if I was you. I've owned both rotary and vibe pump HX machines and there is just something off-putting to me personally about the sound of a vibe pump....sounds very cheap when put next to a comparable rotary pump machine (again, just personal preference as it really doesn't affect the end result in the cup, but the sound is just 'cheaper' in my opinion).

In that price range you will most likely find dozens of E61 groups to choose from. Check out this Buyers Remorse one on CCS (nice HX E61 in your price range with a rotary and 2yr warranty):
https://www.chriscoffee.com/Vetrano-Buy ... u-n995.htm

The Vetrano is a much better choice than the Musica and also a step up from the Anita and/or the Cellini. (Keep in mind though that the Vetrano needs to be plumbed in)

Oh, and feel free to call them and negotiate the price....you never know.

Another choice is the ECM sold by 1st-line.com ....although its above your budget. (You can always try to negotiate the price):
http://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/ECM-Ge ... 404p10.htm

You can also go the used route if you are willing to search around and if you don't care about a warranty (although some warranties do transfer). There is an Alex Duetto II Dual Boiler being sold by a member on coffeegeek.com for $1500 right now with several expensive accessories included...that is a fantastic deal and is better than anything you listed as well as anything I listed by a long shot. PM me if you have any other questions.

Also, the Baratza Vario is a perfectly capable espresso grinder and it has been compared side by side with titan level grinders costing 3-4 times as much. Good choice on the Vario. (You may be able to find an incredible deal in the Buy-sell-trade section as well)

Darren,

Welcome to HB.

The best for one person might not be the best for someone else. There are a few good deals out there, but they depend on your preferences. The differences between one E-61 HX and another comes down more to internal parts, product support, looks, and options (rotary vs vibe pump, plumb-in/out option, etc.). The taste in the cup differences will be almost impossible to detect.

Having said that, This one from Chris Coffee might be worth your consideration. Solid company, solid vendor. great price. Only question is does it appeal to you?

If you can plumb in and out (or you want to run off a bottle), you may want to opt for the Vetrano he also has in the Remorse section. A little more, but has a nice quiet rotary pump. If you want the newest version that can be run off a reservoir but still have a rotary, you may want to look at this QuickMill Aquila at 1st Line.

As etout mentioned before I could get this post up, the ECM offered by 1st Line sure looks nice and is loaded, but it's a ways up from your price point. Only you can decide if the added cost is worth it.

Good luck.

Thank you very much, both of you. I don't have the option to plumb, so I'll look into the other options. Thanks again.

You got some good suggestions from Merle....that Cellini from CCS and the QM Aquila from 1st line both are tank machines. If you aren't pressed for time there is sure to be many more 'buyers remorse' and 'open box' deals at Chris Coffee after the holidays....returned gifts and what not. Your budget is very reasonable to get a nice new machine and even more so a fantastic high end used machine. Best of luck.

The used Cellini and the Alex Duetto II (if still available) look like great deals. Other than the lack of a vacuum breaker (which would be a pain since no timer), do you think I would have buyer's remorse taking a cheaper route and buying a new Oscar for $945. I really don't want to go over $1500 so these three (and any other suggestions) are still on the table for me. Any guidance greatly appreciated. Thanks again, Darren.

I believe you can just put a breaker on the Oscar and Chris Coffee sells them for relatively cheap.

docholiday wrote:The used Cellini and the Alex Duetto II (if still available) look like great deals. Other than the lack of a vacuum breaker (which would be a pain since no timer), do you think I would have buyer's remorse taking a cheaper route and buying a new Oscar for $945. I really don't want to go over $1500 so these three (and any other suggestions) are still on the table for me. Any guidance greatly appreciated. Thanks again, Darren.

The Oscar is a solid machine and you can install a vacuum breaker if you want which will allow it to be put on a timer. I also considered the NS Oscar way back when I first started as well and did a ton of research on it. It's a decent entry level HX machine and will surely produce good results. As far as buyers remorse....only you can judge that. This can be a very expensive hobby, so spending a little more now may save you a lot money in the near future if you decide to upgrade or if you are the type of person who wants the best. As far as that Duetto II is concerned, there really isn't much to upgrade from at a home user level unless you get into the GS/3 and above range, or unless you get another brand of an E61 Dual boiler (lateral move though). If you are comparing between the Cellini and the Oscar then I'd say it's a no brainer to go with the Cellini....much nicer looking machine in my opinion and a more robust build overall. For what its worth, that Duetto II appears to be in incredible condition and was surely meticulously taken care of. You might want to first contact the seller to see if it's even still available.

The E61 machines are very nice and will surely gain more attention on the counter than an Oscar (just an ascetics point though). A dual boiler like a Duetto II is going to make your learning curve substantially less as it will provide a tighter temp profile and more consistency with less work on your part. I've owned several HX machines and a couple DB machines and personally wouldn't go back to a HX again (off topic though). I've seen all 3 machines in person and would say that the Duetto just has a much nicer look and more robust feel overall. I'm not trying to say the Oscar is bad by any means, it's just that a machine like the Cellini is on a higher level than the Oscar, and then the Duetto is on an even higher level than the Cellini.

Personally, if I was starting over and I had a $1500 machine budget I'd snap that Duetto II up in a heart beat....even being used.

** I also wanted to add a remark: If you go with a cheaper route and then start to add accessories like steaming pitchers, tampers, scales, baskets, etc....you'll see how quickly things add up. A gap of a few hundred dollars gets filled immediately vs getting the items in a package deal. This goes for buying a used machine with included accessories or trying to negotiate a package deal with a vendor on a new machine. Keep this in mind, you will see how fast a budget get expelled once you add accessories.

[quote="docholiday"..... The NS Oscar is still a possibility but the inability to put on a timer may deter me. .......Thanks, Darren.[/quote]

don't let this deter you from considering the Oscar
I have an Oscar. It's given me troubles, yes. But for the price (especially the price I paid) <$1k I believe it is a good value for a HX

I had a timer on my Oscar before. You'll still have to release false pressure and wait another 5-15 minutes or so. all that meant for me - was to release the presssure once it was on 1st thing in the morning, then go do whatever one does to get ready to go out the door (shower, prepare breakfast, walk the dog, etc...)

good luck with making your decision
for me, the decision was easy due to the price I paid. personally since I have 2 other vintage lever machines, I would not pay 1500 for a HX machine.