Compak K10 Fresh - Zero grind retention so far - Page 4

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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Spitz.me
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#31: Post by Spitz.me »

So what you're saying is that you didn't open up the grinder to ensure it was completely clean of grinds. I'd say that the collective argument that K10 Fresh retains grinds is not an assumption. The level can be argued, but not the fact that it does. The K10 PB easily retains 5-6g total without a brush after I dose. So, why is your K10 Fresh any different if the path to the downward spout is the same?

I also think you really need to change your topic title. Believe me, if the K10 Fresh was measured to have zero grounds retention, it would be, I bet, the #1 grinder in use on these forums. I know I'd rather have it's bells and whistles! haha

The title is far too misleading...
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Intrepid510
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#32: Post by Intrepid510 »

I will be interested to see your results grinding for espresso, drip isnt going to clump together and stick to the insides like an espresso grind will.

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damonbowe (original poster)
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#33: Post by damonbowe (original poster) replying to Intrepid510 »

Me, too. However, please note that I have been grinding very fine, way too fine for the pour over brewing because I wasn't using my dripper correctly. :(

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damonbowe (original poster)
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#34: Post by damonbowe (original poster) »

Spitz.me wrote:So what you're saying is that you didn't open up the grinder to ensure it was completely clean of grinds.
I am saying the opposite of what you are saying.

The difference between your experience and my n=1 experience could be due to so many different factors, starting with air quality, coffee variety, etc. Impossible to know. But the bottom line is that you have a different grinder with different giggling and shaking and vibrating due to the big doser on the front.

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[creative nickname]
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#35: Post by [creative nickname] »

Damon, I think what you are missing is the fact that most grinders usually get tested, by grinding coffee through them, by the manufacturer (and sometimes again by the seller) before they are sold. So the fact that, "out of the box," you measured "zero retention" does not mean you were not mixing in some old grinds that were stuck inside the grinder with the new. And because of the physical constraints of the grinder, most people are very skeptical that you could get a brush all the way inside the space where the K10F typically retains grinds. So unless you removed the burrs and cleaned out everything underneath before your first use, measuring the same weight in and out doesn't actually indicate zero retention.

Does that make things a bit clearer?
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Spitz.me
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#36: Post by Spitz.me »

damonbowe wrote:Yes, the grind path was clean at the start.

I will add that even if your assumption that 5 grams is retained were true, it is equally logical that whatever grinds are shot out of the K10F are not the previously retained grinds but are only new grinds. You cannot make the conclusion that they are only old grinds unless you actually tag the grinds with something so you can track them around the grinder. Like, maybe you could use some of that minute rice and then use some coffee (or vice versa). But then you still have the problem of knowing whether rice shoots out of the grinder at the same rate as coffee.
Wait...

You say that you opened up the grinder and cleaned it out to ensure you could measure retention accurately. But, then you question the process because there may be some stale grounds? I'm not exactly sure I follow. How could there be some stale grounds in the output if you ensured there was no coffee in the path and chamber that lead to the spout?

Another thing you're missing is there is no N=1 experience with grinder retention levels. My experience is similar to everyone else's experience with the K10 PB. Drastically varying experiences tend to be due to the application of mods to decrease level of retention. Humidity and type of bean play a factor, but not to the degree you suggest.
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russel
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#37: Post by russel »

damonbowe wrote:I appreciate your attempts to diagram where grind path could be problematic and I hope Compak corrects the path issues you see, but they are not empirically path issues. Far as I can tell, most of the people reciting problems with K10F do not actually own a K10F and are just going by pictures.
Well, I've owned 4 Compak grinders (2 stepped K6s, K6 Silenzio, K8 Fresh) and more than 25 other grinders including a Nino, K30 ES and Vario, 2 Super Caimanos, 5 Mazzers, 4 Malhkoenig bulk grinders, over 10 different 6Xmm flat burr light commercials, a Pharos, an HGOne...only the Super Caimano On Demand and the Guat Lab have yet to be taken apart for service and study. So I think that I'm reasonably qualified to talk about the internal workings of a coffee grinder. I can tell you right now that your grinder has grounds in the burr outlet. Period. If you break down your K10F right now you will find a few grams of ground coffee in the burr outlet underneath the little rubber flap highlighted in the diagram. This is a fact of the design of your grinder. The angled snout and the flap make it impossible to manually clean out the Compak Fresh grinders' burr outlet. If you put a 25g dose of beans in, you will get a mix of those beans and the grounds retained in the burr outlet out. You may get 25g out, but it isn't the same 25g of beans that you put in. You may not have noticed it...but if you grind a dose of Sumatran beans and then follow it up with a washed Kenyan, you will get one really weird cup of coffee...if you can't taste that then you need to invest more time and money in your palate instead of in your espresso grinder. (harsh sounding again...sort of sorry :|)
russel at anacidicandbitterbeverage dot com

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