Manual or semi-auto espresso machine for a newbie with ~$1500 budget - Page 2

#11: Post by HB » October 17th, 2013, 8:38 am

FrankjEsp0 wrote:what should a newbie expect when purchasing a machine from these different tiers? You did a good job stating that in the hands of a pro all of those machines will produce great coffee. That's great, it gives me confidence that with the time and patience I can learn any machine and produce great results. But what about in the beginning?

From a newbie's viewpoint, the main difference between entry-level espresso equipment and the next step up is more consistency. There are various workarounds like flushing just so or "temperature surfing". Jim summed up the newbie's purchase dilemma years ago:

another_jim wrote:Grinders do vary dramatically in how easily they pack, and doserless models are usually not as good as doser ones, where the thwackety-thwack eliminates clumps. This is ultimately an issue of barista technique, not grinder design, but the easy life is always nice. I'm guessing the Virtuoso may have problems in this area, judging by the complaining newbies; the Trespade grinders are harder to pack than commercial doser models, but manageable.

Newbies invariably attribute their inability to pull two identical shots in a row to the lack of sufficient equipment settings they can change between shots. The fact is that the entry level equipment used by newbies is much more unforgiving than the commercial equipment people buy after they decide they'll pursue home espresso. This creates a double whammy, the people with technique good enough to use entry level equipment have moved beyond it; and the people buying it will have their weaknesses mercilessly exposed. The upshot is that entry level equipment gets a lot of unfair criticism; and that newbies get a very long hazing learning to cope with it.

In the site's streamlined review format, how demanding a particular espresso machine or grinder of barista technique is referred to as the "forgiveness factor". For example, the Rancilio Silvia merited 2 stars out of 5, the Quickmill Silvano 3.5 stars, and the La Marzocco GS/3 earned 4.5 stars.

October 17th, 2013, 3:00 pm

rpavlis wrote:With the student's attitude and a manual espresso machine you are likely to have dismal results. However, if one take the trouble to understand every element of the espresso making process, one can quickly learn to use this understanding to make far better espresso than the electronic automaton.

I have noticed that those who strongly favour manual espresso machines also prefer to use various robust hand driven grinders. I think the best buy here is the Pharos. It is good as it comes from OE, but if one make just a few changes it is wonderful. OE deliberately makes it easily modifiable to user's needs.

Thank you for the analogy, I found it very helpful and relatable seeing as I am a somewhat recent graduate (graduated with a mechanical engineering degree in 2011). The machine, the technique, the adventure to making good espresso is definitely something I can see myself taking pleasure in. I'm currently enjoying this through coffee, using my manual grinder and French press or Belgian royal siphon and I feel a quality espresso machine will just take my obsession to another level.

I'm SO happy you mentioned the Pharos, I was looking into one because I really wanted to remain with a manual but mentally accepted my current grinder would not be up to the challenge. The Pharos seemed to be the best thing out there as far as manuals go plus appears to grind relatively fast compared to my current one.

Anyway, it looks like I may be settling on the Elektra Micro Casa a Leva with the Pharos. I just need to figure out where to find that additional spring for the Mcal.

October 18th, 2013, 7:00 pm

I would skip the Micro Casa. I don't think it represents good value at all. For the money you spend on a new one, you're well on your way to a commercial lever. Adding an extra spring? Seriously? Nonsense. Start with a used Pavoni and then go right to commercial.

Just checked local pricing. An extra $350 gets me a Strega. Really, it's a no-brainer.

October 19th, 2013, 2:27 pm

Anyway, it looks like I may be settling on the Elektra Micro Casa a Leva with the Pharos. I just need to figure out where to find that additional spring for the Mcal.

I think the Pharos is a great choice, given your budgetary constraints. I recently picked up a new MCAL myself, and I love the shots I pull with it. I have not added an extra spring, and I doubt I will feel the urge to do so. If you read around on the boards, you'll find useful advice on how to figure out how to control its temperature, and I have found that this is easy to do. Right now it is my primary machine at home, and I find that it is perfect for my uses.

Is it a good idea for your first machine? That is hard to say. It requires more temperature management than the cheaper pump machines equipped with a PID, or than an open-boiler manual or spring lever, like a Caravel or a Peppina. But it is beautiful to look at, and when used well it produces excellent, unique espressos.

#15: Post by **peacecup** » October 21st, 2013, 3:47 pm

It's probably worth using without the extra spring a while before worrying about adding it. I'm still enjoying my spring levers with one spring after several years, so much so that I don't feel any urge to add one.

PC

#16: Post by **jptvelo** » October 21st, 2013, 4:35 pm

crazy4espresso wrote:I would skip the Micro Casa. I don't think it represents good value at all. For the money you spend on a new one, you're well on your way to a commercial lever. Adding an extra spring? Seriously? Nonsense. Start with a used Pavoni and then go right to commercial.

Sure, unless...
1. you want a compact spring lever
2. you don't have space for a commercial machine
3. you value looks (highly subjective I know!)

The list could be much longer, but those are the obvious ones. The MCAL (micro casa) may seem overpriced to you, but don't assume that your value system is shared by others!
There's a reason why Elektra has been making and selling MCALs with virtually no changes for decades.

#17: Post by **njtnjt** » October 21st, 2013, 4:38 pm

I'd like to chime in - being a relative newcomer to the hobby. I started a few years ago dabbling with my grandparents 1965 La Pavoni. I have since added a Pharos grinder - a great purchase and right in your budget; just remember to add a drop or two of water to the beans before you grind them. And most recently added a Gaggia Classic with PID to the mix. I think both machines and grinder could all be purchased for less than $1500 if you bought the LP used. This way I am experiencing both lever and semi-auto to see what suits me best and I have a first rate grinder that will serve me no matter where the journey takes me.

Food for thought.

Good Luck!