Olympia Cremina or Londinium I?

#1: Post by **mfortin** » October 14th, 2013, 10:06 am

Hello
I am in the buying decision making. I would like some real opinion about cremina or Londinium I considering these parameters:
- I make 2 double espresso a day.
- No use of the milk frother.
- Already have a E-61 machine and expecting significant improvement in taste (more body and buttery mouthfeel).
- Looking for excellent reliability and stability.
- What about maintenance?
Thanks for any positive advice.
Regards

#2: Post by **RoloD** » October 14th, 2013, 10:51 am

I have a Londinium and I previously owned a Cremina.

- Both are solid, reliable machines. But they are also very different machines.

Advantages of the Londinium :

- Consistency. The Cremina will begin to heat up after a couple of espressos, whereas you can leave the Londinium on all day; once it is up to temperaure, it stays there. Not so much a problem if you are only making 2 espressos a day. The Londinium has a sprung lever so the pressure and speed of extraction is not dependent on manual pressure.

- Milk frothing. The Londinium is far better. OK, you only drink espressos (like I do) but don't you have visitors?

- You can pull a full double on the Londinium. Pulling a double on the Cremina really needs two pulls, which negates the advantage of lever pressure profile.

- Boiler refill. You never have a chance to get blasted with a shot of superheated water as you do with the Cremina if you neglect to let it cool before you undo the radiator cap. You can also plumb the Londinium in.

- The Londinium is actually cheaper than the Cremina.

- The 58mm portafilter means you have a very wide choice of baskets and accessories. There isn't much to go wrong on the Londinium and the electronic components are standard and easily available.

Advantages of the Cremina -

- It is wonderfully small.

- There is a certain charm to pulling a manual lever. You may just enjoy that feeling of engagement in the espresso process.

- The Cremina is a beautifully made, very simple machine. It is also ludicrously overpriced. There is even less to go wrong than there is with the Londinium, but Olympia's parts are expensive.

Both will make great espresso, but you get much more for your money with the Londinium. I loved my Cremina, but I can't say I miss it.

#3: Post by **WSH** » October 14th, 2013, 2:50 pm

mfortin wrote:...Already have a E-61 machine and expecting significant improvement in taste (more body and buttery mouthfeel).

- Looking for excellent reliability and stability...

Strega + Pharos (or any other "Titan" conical)

#4: Post by **spentpuck** » October 14th, 2013, 3:01 pm

You can contact Michael in Ottawa.regarding the Cremina....I am sure you could take it for a test ride! https://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/membe ... ell/644042

Great guy to deal with.

October 14th, 2013, 4:05 pm

mfortin wrote: - Already have a E-61 machine and expecting significant improvement in taste (more body and buttery mouthfeel)

You're not going to see a significant change from one to the other. There are subtle differences, but it will doubtably be night and day. A good espresso from either is excellent.

#6: Post by **drgary** » October 15th, 2013, 1:57 am

mfortin wrote: - Already have a E-61 machine and expecting significant improvement in taste (more body and buttery mouthfeel).
- Looking for excellent reliability and stability.

You won't get richer shots (body and buttery mouthfeel) with a Cremina or Londinium than you can with an E61 machine. You will get more flavor separation.

A prosumer machine with a commercial spring lever group will give you more consistency if you like to drink the same coffee day after day.

If you want to try different coffees in the same session a Cremina will allow you to temperature surf for each of them, provided you add thermometry or a temperature strip (not as good) to the group. Then again an E-61 that's an HX will let you temperature surf too.

For doubles, you can get about 17 gm of coffee in an Elektra basket in a Cremina, even 17.5 if you push it. A Londinium should be dosed with about 18 gm. For shot volume the Londinium or similar machine will do more on a single pull, but do you care about shot volume or quality? This brings to mind another option.

Since you do no steaming and a Cremina is expensive, have you considered an Arrarex VAM or Caravel in good condition? This is a no longer overlooked classic machine capable of very fine temperature control. Its design is innovative -- you need no tools to take it apart and service it -- and the build quality is first rate. It offers a very hands-on experience of making wonderful espresso. The footprint is even smaller than a Cremina. Surprisingly a VAM/Caravel double basket can hold 15.5 gm of coffee, and yes, you may do more than one pull, but you don't need to.

As the owner of a commercial spring lever, a Caravel and a Cremina, I love all of them. But for your preferences the Caravel/VAM is a better buy, a wonderful classic and an opportunity to explore an open kettle lever.

#7: Post by **michaelbenis** » October 15th, 2013, 4:43 am

What sort of beans do you prefer? If you like the new-wave light roasts of certain dry process beans, for example, a layered shot will be as important mouthfeel. In terms of flavour separation, the machines rank Londinumium (most), Cremina then Caravel (least).

The Caravel can produce amazing ristrettos, but forget it for longer shots if you want to retain a rich mouthfeel. You are likely to wish you hadn't bothered. Also, the heating elements can go and it isn't currently easy to find a replacement (though you can fill the Caravel with boiling water or using a little immersion heating element for travellers).

In terms of learning curve the Caravel and Cremina are probably about equal, though most people do take an age to learn that you don't get the best shots out of a Cremina by grinding ultrafine and pushing on the lever for all you are worth...

#8: Post by **erik82** » October 15th, 2013, 4:45 am

I've played with a Londinium and own a new Cremina
- The Londinium will give you less variance to play with but more consistency between shots
- Both the Londinium and the new Cremina are very temperature stable and I can leave my Cremina on whole day without overheating. The Cremina will overheat after around 6 consecutive shots but from what you posted that won't be an issue
- Maintenace for a Cremina is much simpler than a large prosumer lever or E-61 because it has far less components
- For espresso only you don't need a big machine

All this said a manual lever will take more time to master than a springlever. Once you get the hang of it it's not that hard anymore. I switched from an E-61 to a Strega to a Cremina because I only drink espresso and wanted a machine that will last and has minimal maintenance with a small footprint. The shots of the Cremina are also very good so that will not be a big of an issue. It just takes more dedication to master a manual lever.

#9: Post by **arcus** » October 19th, 2013, 2:53 pm

I was considering the same two machines. I went with the LI because it offers more for the money and I have the space and the ability to plumb-in the machine. If space is an issue, get a Cremina. You can't go wrong with either machine and I'd also like to add a Cremina one day.

October 19th, 2013, 9:17 pm

Hello,
Thank you everybody for all your positive comments.
I made my decision for the LI, direct plumbing.
Now it's time for grinder shopping...
Regards