Restoration, best materials and practices.
- cuppajoe
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: 11 years ago
Have seen restoration tips scattered throughout various posts, but wanted to try and prep myself for incoming projects. Already have my first one with more on the way.
Most folks seem to recommend citric acid or white vinegar for descaling boilers and various other copper and brass hardware. As citric acid is not recommended for plated parts, would there be a reasons why not to just use vinegar for everything, and just use citric for very stubborn solid copper and brass? Or just use citric for everything but plated parts? Mainly thinking in regards to cleaning without full disassembly, where solution could get splashed on plating, etc. Have also seen several references to citric having chemical reactions that may leave behind other, harder to clean, residues.
Gaskets - Most gasket material is available at auto parts stores, best to duplicate original material for DIY gaskets, or is there a universal upgrade material? Is RTV(silicon) used much?
Bolts and cap screws - Would it be a good idea to use anti-seize for reassembly of boilers and groups? I'm also planning on replacing all non cosmetic fasteners with stainless hex socket where appropriate, unless it impacts collectors status. My go to product for stuck fasteners is Liquid Wrench, any reason not to use it? Are hammer wrenches and screwdrivers viable, or too much of a chance of snapping something?
Seems teflon and/or silicon jacketed wires are best, what are the recommended gauges for heating elements and controls? I like to over engineer electricals a bit.
After a rebuild, would it be a good idea to run a commercial cleaner/descaler through the machine before clean water flushing?
Dow 111 is recommended for group lubing, I have a can of Hobart grease from a Kitchenaid rebuild, and wondering if it would work on lever groups. It's rated to 200c/392f and is food certified. Also thinking of using it as a general lube.
Think thats enough for now. Sorry for being long winded, thought it might be nice to have these answers consolidated as a general guide for anyone just starting out.
Thanks to all for any insight.
Most folks seem to recommend citric acid or white vinegar for descaling boilers and various other copper and brass hardware. As citric acid is not recommended for plated parts, would there be a reasons why not to just use vinegar for everything, and just use citric for very stubborn solid copper and brass? Or just use citric for everything but plated parts? Mainly thinking in regards to cleaning without full disassembly, where solution could get splashed on plating, etc. Have also seen several references to citric having chemical reactions that may leave behind other, harder to clean, residues.
Gaskets - Most gasket material is available at auto parts stores, best to duplicate original material for DIY gaskets, or is there a universal upgrade material? Is RTV(silicon) used much?
Bolts and cap screws - Would it be a good idea to use anti-seize for reassembly of boilers and groups? I'm also planning on replacing all non cosmetic fasteners with stainless hex socket where appropriate, unless it impacts collectors status. My go to product for stuck fasteners is Liquid Wrench, any reason not to use it? Are hammer wrenches and screwdrivers viable, or too much of a chance of snapping something?
Seems teflon and/or silicon jacketed wires are best, what are the recommended gauges for heating elements and controls? I like to over engineer electricals a bit.
After a rebuild, would it be a good idea to run a commercial cleaner/descaler through the machine before clean water flushing?
Dow 111 is recommended for group lubing, I have a can of Hobart grease from a Kitchenaid rebuild, and wondering if it would work on lever groups. It's rated to 200c/392f and is food certified. Also thinking of using it as a general lube.
Think thats enough for now. Sorry for being long winded, thought it might be nice to have these answers consolidated as a general guide for anyone just starting out.
Thanks to all for any insight.
David - LMWDP 448
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits
- orphanespresso
- Sponsor
- Posts: 1844
- Joined: 16 years ago
Anyone who uses gasket in a tube silicone RTV sealant from the auto store on an espresso machine should be presented a gift card from S***bucks and be forced to actually use it. When I see orange goo on a machine I either send it back of assume it is going to be a loooong rebuild. Just one of many little pet peeves that have evolved over the years....
Doug Garrott
www.orphanespresso.com
www.orphanespresso.com
- crazy4espresso
- Posts: 677
- Joined: 14 years ago
This is the thread sealant they use on espresso machines in Europe:
http://espressocare.com/Qstore/Qstore.c ... Food+Grade
I tried using just teflon tape on my last build and so far it's holding up.
Be careful at what you spray around parts that might see contact with brew water, as products like WD40 will permeate into the metal and it is permanent!!
For descaling old lever equipment I like to use acetic acid (vinegar) as it's easier on metal and does a great job, and won't leave any insoluble deposits. I have been told that my coffee will taste like a salad but that has not been the case. Vinegar is great as an all purpose cleaner. I use it all over the house.
http://espressocare.com/Qstore/Qstore.c ... Food+Grade
I tried using just teflon tape on my last build and so far it's holding up.
Be careful at what you spray around parts that might see contact with brew water, as products like WD40 will permeate into the metal and it is permanent!!
For descaling old lever equipment I like to use acetic acid (vinegar) as it's easier on metal and does a great job, and won't leave any insoluble deposits. I have been told that my coffee will taste like a salad but that has not been the case. Vinegar is great as an all purpose cleaner. I use it all over the house.
"I would rather suffer with coffee than be senseless." — Napoleon Bonaparte
LMWDP #427
LMWDP #427
- Burner0000
- Posts: 469
- Joined: 12 years ago
You can buy Teflon by the sheet at any local hardware store. I suggest tracing and re cutting all gaskets. That way it sticks to OEM. For boiler cleaning I would look around for someone with muriatic acid. You can dip in your boiler for a few seconds and it will eat off anything in the boiler left behind from previous use. You can also do this with all copper. A DIY way would be to buy a ton of CLR and mix 50/50 with water and dip the boiler and copper parts in for 1-2 days. Fiberglass wire jackets are good to cover any wires near the boiler and groups. They can stand up to 1100'F. Nylon brush for scrubbing won't ruin any finishes and Cafiza is best for the portafilters, baskets and screens if you are going to reuse.
Roast it, Grind it, Brew it!.. Enjoy it!..
- crazy4espresso
- Posts: 677
- Joined: 14 years ago
The resident chemist on this site rpavlis advises against the use of muriatic acid on copper boilers. It can be extremely destructive. However it can be purchased at any pool supply store, and I normally keep a supply. I advise strong caution when handling this acid. A citric or acetic acid solution should be more than sufficient for cleaning a boiler.
"I would rather suffer with coffee than be senseless." — Napoleon Bonaparte
LMWDP #427
LMWDP #427
- Burner0000
- Posts: 469
- Joined: 12 years ago
I personally will only take my boilers to a cafe supplier & repair to clean with this acid. Otherwise I would just use 50/50 CLR.
Roast it, Grind it, Brew it!.. Enjoy it!..
-
- Posts: 131
- Joined: 11 years ago
the last rebuild I did, I soaked the parts in citric acid (soaked some in vinegar) but I think I'm going to use only white vinegar next time. It seemed to work just as well and is a little less expensive. also, vinegar seems to be a bit more tame as far as getting in contact with skin. just my opinion.