Ultra rich crema - Page 4

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
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boar_d_laze
Posts: 2058
Joined: 17 years ago

#31: Post by boar_d_laze »

Some baskets work better with some machines. There's no way to know in advance except for asking people you trust or trying it for yourself. I like Strada baskets for my La Cimbali M21.

It's possible that you're not getting a good seal around the edges of the VST with your tamper. If water is sneaking around the side without going through the puck, you're going to get under-saturation -- and that's in line with what you've described. But "might be" isn't the same as "is."

I have a bunch of 58mm tamper bases, and one 58.35mm Strada/VST specific tamper base (from CoffeeComplements) -- and the tighter fit makes for a neater looking basket, but not for a better cup of coffee. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try a precise-fit tamper.

I may not be Italian, but don't go through all that distribution hazarai (to use the Italian term) either. Some people like fooling around with that stuff and some people don't. I subscribe to the Good enough is good enough, aka the What are you, meshuggeneh? school of puck prepartaion. That's not a criticism of anyone else's ritual. You gotta go with what works for you.

There are only a couple of things about tamping which matter:
  • Make sure you leave a level surface; and
  • No need to practice the 30lb handstand. You can use more or less, as long as your consistent from basket. If it is, you can use small adjustments in grind and dose to tweak for the results you want.

And quite a few which don't:
Just like, exactly 30lb of tamping pressure, polishing the top of the puck in some specific way is no longer dogma. Mutatis mutandi.

BDL
Drop a nickel in the pot Joe. Takin' it slow. Waiter, waiter, percolator

aerojrp (original poster)
Posts: 136
Joined: 11 years ago

#32: Post by aerojrp (original poster) »

Regarding the VST channeling around, I did put on the bottomless portafilter, and there is no evidence of it happening... It looks pretty solid. After playing with the situation for a few days more, I think you may be right, the basket just perform differently.. the taste from the VST is good, but the result I like best just happens to come from the stock basket... so much for an investment in all the different VST baskets :cry:

BTW, I was able to get the pull size up to where it should be by adjusting the dose. My Italian Sister in law yelled at me for 16g instead of 14g. She was right, though... at 14g I still get a very nice pull, but I'm getting the correct volume for a double now.

The Vivace beans arrived this week... and the result is interesting. As expected, the crema is more, and it is where I want it to be, but I'm still not sure about the overall flavor of the particular blend... It's a bit bright... and a little sour at the finish even after restricting the flow some and bumping the temp up a little. Not really the straightforward southern Italian taste I'm looking for. I'm now trying a 50/50 blend of Vivace and Baltimore Tea and coffee's Espresso Milano. First show seemed a little more to my liking, and the crema was still present. I need to play a bit more before making final conclusions...

Are they any other good blends from reputable roasters that include robusta that are worth trying?

Jim

aerojrp (original poster)
Posts: 136
Joined: 11 years ago

#33: Post by aerojrp (original poster) »

Just wanted to add an update and some closure. I'm still happily using the stock basket with 14g, and it has been consistently producing very good shots. I've been trying a few coffee, both local and by mail, and I think I finally found the one that gives me the exact taste and texture I have been searching for. It is Capri from Caffe D'arte. They advertise authentic Italian blends, and I have to say the results are dead on! I read in the coffee thread of differing results from Caffe D'arte, but I'm very happy with the results I received. Contrary to reports, the bag did have the roasting date on it. There is no valve, true, but they seem to leave extra room in the bag for gas. I was really happy to find that they sent a true pound of coffee, and not 12 oz as others are selling now.

Jim

espressotime
Posts: 1751
Joined: 14 years ago

#34: Post by espressotime »

A lot has to do with the type of offee.
Malabar gives rich and syruplike crema.
And I tamp with a plastic dosertamper.One quick push and that's it.
Made a video this morning of a Malabar shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZDvgGlhTns

danickles
Posts: 1
Joined: 11 years ago

#35: Post by danickles »

Jim,
I have a similar question, so perhaps someone can address both our concerns.
I've been making decent espresso for years in the USA on my 8 year old Oscar Professional, but it's never had the rich quality and deep colored crema I get when I travel through Italy. I've used a decent, but low end ($250US), Gaggia burr grinder to test different coffees, manufacturers, and grinds and the taste is pleasing (I suppose I've gotten used to my rather pathetic attempts so rarely notice that it isn't that good!), but the espresso is always a bit thin. I thought perhaps it was due to my machine.
Now, in retirement, I'm living in Italy, so figured I could finally make my own café bar quality espresso by using the right machine, a new La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II purchased just this week, and one or more of the brands available here - Lavazza, Kimbo, Illy, etc.
My initial results have been disappointing. Initially I bought an inexpensive DeLongi burr grinder since that was the best I could find in local stores; and whole bean coffee that was very "light". The combination made a not so good espresso without crema and bitter. In my estimation even at the finest setting the grinder couldn't give the necessary grind size and texture.
So, yesterday I bought Lavazza "gold" and "specialita bar" espresso as well as Kimbo espresso napoletano at the local grocer, all ground "per machine da espresso". Once again I'm disappointed. While the initial espresso leaves the portafilter slowly and is very black and almost 'syrupy', the rich crema I seek does not follow. Rather the crema is very light color and seems to come too watery, thus watering down the entire espresso and making too large a shot.
It seems the machine is doing its job. I am able to set the quantity (time) for the shot to be pulled and have set the temperature of the water @ 95C. To tamp the coffee with about as much pressure as I can use, I've been making all double shots so I can fill the portafilter as full as the machine will accept it when tamped.
I'm desperate not only to learn that I haven't wasted my money on a beautiful machine that won't make coffee the way I desire, but more importantly to be able to replicate that beautiful espresso I get for 90 cents (Euro) at nearly all the local bars. I will appreciate any and all advice.
Ciao.
Dave

espressotime
Posts: 1751
Joined: 14 years ago

#36: Post by espressotime replying to danickles »

Your espressomachine is top noth.
The Delonghi I'm not familiar with.
But pre ground coffee isn't going to give you the results you want.
buy fresh beans(not older than two weeks after roasting) and that should do the trick.Presuming your grinder is up to it.

If you've got this one
http://www.amazon.com/kitchen-dining/dp/B002LVUHWC
I'd buy a better grinder.

entropyembrace
Posts: 330
Joined: 13 years ago

#37: Post by entropyembrace »

Dave you bought a top quality prosumer grade espresso machine, but she needs a partner :) Buy a top quality espresso grinder to pair with her and feed them the best fresh roasted coffee beans and she will be happy to make the best espresso. :)

john_ertw
Posts: 78
Joined: 11 years ago

#38: Post by john_ertw »

Why not see if you can buy a small quantity of beans from a cafe that produces espresso you like (make sure to get the same beans they use). This way you have a baseline to compare the taste to and something to shoot for. Once you get similar results you can start trying different beans.

aerojrp (original poster)
Posts: 136
Joined: 11 years ago

#39: Post by aerojrp (original poster) »

Dave,

You can even take it one step further... I'm assuming there is a bar pretty close to you house, so as well as trying to talk them out of some beans, get a cup of freshly ground coffee and run it right back to your house to try it! That way you can analyze the entire process.

You might find that you have to get the grinder through a bar distributor. The high end stuff is not easily available to the public since everyone can just walk around the corner to their local bar.

Ciao,

Jim

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