russel wrote:I think that you are over spending on the machine and under spending on the grinder. Machines come and go, and the tech inside marches ever forward...but you only have to buy a K10 once to have the potential to make excellent espresso on just about any machine (steam-toys and pressurized portafilters excluded).

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The dealer is helping me out-the rocket r58 normally retails for $2700, he's giving it to me for $2400, and the vario $450, he's giving it to me for $350. Plus i'm getting rocket accessories like the knock box, steam tips, and bottomless portafilter-I thought it was a pretty good break in price-unless others have heard of better deals from a reputable dealer?? (if so please pm me hah) I tried to negotiate further, but couldn't get lower.

In terms of the grinder, I think you guys are prob right. I know that the grinder is the star of the show, but it's easier to replace a grinder than a machine. Shipping costs and upgrade costs in trying to sell a HX for example when ready to upgrade to a DB would be a headache, while selling the vairo will be no problem (and likely for the same price I paid!). So yeah, in terms of better quality espresso, the k10 would be the smarter purchase while putting the rest of the funds on a cellini premium plus or prob a lesser machine since my budget is maxed at the moment at about $2700. However, I want to be able to plumb in at some point, I want a piece of kitchen art , and I love the DB features. Also, something I forgot to mention, 90% of my drinks will be milk based, so I may not notice the differences between the vario and a k10 as dramatically as someone who is drinking them straight.

I think at the end of the day i'm somewhat choosing beauty over brains, but I think the vario can hold its own-it's just not at as a high a level as the r58.

JPizzzle wrote:P.S is it normal to feel nuts spending this kind of cash on espresso products lol. Coming from nespresso where my machine was like $500, it's scary pressing the purchase button

Obviously nuts is the norm, just look at how many people are spending as much if not more on the very same forum...

JPizzzle wrote:P.S is it normal to feel nuts spending this kind of cash on espresso products lol. Coming from nespresso where my machine was like $500, it's scary pressing the purchase button

Absolutely not sir! I moved from Nespresso to Gaggia in about a 5 month span. And now I'm home roasting. I made the move like so many others (and like you!) because we wanted to grow beyond the mediocre. I'm having a ball with it all but my wife thinks I'm nuts. Although I did wean her off of the preground prepackaged junk from the supermarkets.

I will say that what you've read about getting the best grinder is spot on advise. I have a Rocky MD and wish I had been able to up-purchase at the time. It gets clumpy.

Enjoy your selection and report back with how you're doing.

JPizzzle wrote:In terms of the grinder, I think you guys are prob right. I know that the grinder is the star of the show, but it's easier to replace a grinder than a machine

I promise that this is the last time I will push this...you seem to have decided on an R58.

At $2400 for the machine you are putting an extra $1000 into the last 5% of the espresso quality - maybe even more like the last 1%. At the same time you're skimping on the machine that is more or less responsible for the other 95% of the cup quality. And that's just the portion of the results that equipment can take credit for...skill and palate are still more important.

You would be better off increasing you grinder budget from $350 to $700 and buying a SJ. A $500 increase would get you the convenience of an SJ-E or the speed of a Major. If you moved the extra $1000 you're spending on an upgrade from an otherwise excellent HX over to your grinder budget, you could pick up a new K30 Vario or K10 Pro Barista. These are non trivial upgrades that will get you a grinder that will last the rest of your coffee making life and permanently elevate the quality of your espresso on whatever machine(s) you might be using.

Hey Russel,
No worries at all about giving me your opinion. I completely understand your view and appreciate the advice. This forum has been so welcoming, and i'm deff appreciative.

So let me give my logic in picking the vario, and feel free to correct any flaws, since i'm sure i'm not as experienced as many here. The vario costs me $350 and has been shown to perform better than the mazzer mini-e which comes in at about $800. Now this is performance, not build quality. I'm sure the mazzer will outlast the vario over the course of time. Moving on, I started looking at the mazzer super jolly-e ~$1100 and noticed a couple of things. First the reviews are much better than that of the mini, second the thing is built like a tank, and third it's a pretty big machine. Now, when I started to compare it to the vario, I was pretty suprised that most reviewers have stated that it actually grinds at an equal or similar quality as the vario. So, again i'm looking at similar grind quality, but weaker build quality in the vario. So, I had to make a decision do I jump to the next tier of grinders-say the compak k10 or like you suggested k30 vario or do I enjoy the little vario and upgrade down the line. So, in thinking things over, one issue that came up is counter space. I have a fairly nice and modern kitchen, but it's not huge. The espresso setup will be on a two tiered island, and I think the mazzer SJ would take up a great deal of space and make my kitchen look a little too much like a coffee bar. In comparison, the vario is sooo tiny, that it can be hidden away to the side of the rocket and not even seen -not that it's ugly-just not as beautiful as the mazzers.

So, after thinking things over once more, I realized a couple of things. 1-I want the r58-sure i'd be better off taste wise with a compak k10 and maybe a $1000 semi-auto (I don't know if I would notice the difference in my milk drinks though), but the r58 is pulling at me, and I know that it won't only provide me great performance, but also be gorgeous in my kitchen. 2-I don't think it's worth it for me to get a SJ-E or 1k grinder, when the vario has shown similar performance. If I was buying something to last me many years and be the center point of the kitchen, I would deff consider the SJ-E, but I'm just looking for performance at the moment with a minimal foot print. 3-Finally, I think it would be wiser for me to save my money and eventually get a top tier machine like the k10 when I have room for it, and also to see what reviewers say about the upcoming vario forte which if it lives up to half the hype will perform at a top tier level for around 1k. Also, i'm guessing it will have a smaller footprint then the SJ.

So there it is, my crazy thinking process. Sorry if this was overkill, but maybe it's helpful in showing my perspective. Again, if I'm totally off about something, please let me know, as I have not pressed the purchase button. I will though tomorrow though

JP

Sounds like a completely valid rationale. If you're basing it on taste and result in the cup, you can't beat the Vario now (especially if you want to wait to upgrade to K10 or K30). Vario grinds about the same as a SJ, so if you're not concerned about the build quality at present, I think you're making a smart decision. (I too am excited to see reviews of the upcoming Forte!)

An R58 with Vario is an awesome setup! Congrats!

Whatever you decide to go with, you will have a more than decent setup for many years, unless you go completely bonkers on coffee and its intricacies.

I can honestly say i've reached a point where i am satisfied with the results i'm getting and going further would require seriously more time and money, both of which i don't feel i want to invest. What i'm saying is that it's quite possible that this setup last you for a long long while.

I made a similar decision with the Rocket Evoluzione and Mazzer Mini. I've since then plumbed in the machine and given thought to the K10. It's a lot of grinder and i don't feel the need for it right now. So i think it's ok to go in steps. Hey, if you use that Vario for a few years and decide to upgrade, you'll be able to sell it and move on. No life changing decisions here as i see it!

Enjoy your Rocket, they are great machines.

Thanks guys for the feedback, I think i've gotten enough information to make the decision. However, i'm having so much trouble hitting that purchase button. I have a good deal setup, it's just such a large amount of money on a product that I had never expected to drop big $$ on. Also, returning over buyers remorse isn't an option for me, since it would cost me about $400 in shipping and restocking fees. Guess I gotta **** or get off the pot.