another_jim wrote:While watching Heather Perry pull shots a few years back, and hearing her comments about blonding; it suddenly became very obvious that it is much better practice to let the shot to run too blonde than not blonde enough. Here is the reason:

It is self evident that if the shot hasn't blonded; it hasn't fully extracted. So unless you are going for a very edgy taste; it's a good idea to only end the shot only after it has gone quite blonde.

I took Ms. Perry's one-day class on espresso in January. She not only talked about blonding but covered the topic in extra detail after other students asked her about my technique -- which, as it turned out, was similar to hers in that respect. Ms. Perry is specific about watching the flow and cutting off on the shot when it goes too light, also on adjusting dose and grind so that the time from start to blonde falls in the 25 to 30 second range. It's fair to say that she disagrees with Mitch and Dennis.

Furthermore, Klatch baristas (all of whom are trained by Ms. Perry) do not use scales for individual shots. They dose with a timed grind, and cut the shot partly by inspection and partly by time. They are expected to use color as a way of determining if the shot runs either too quickly or too slowly, and to note the arc of the stream as well.

Learning the "subjectively correct" blonding point when the extraction is properly balanced between over and under-extracted is a matter of some judgment and experience. However, it's easy to master as those things go.

• (1) I find it easier to watch the surface of the pour then the stream color. This is as much a matter as the height of my machine, the lighting in the room, and where my shadow lands with my finger on the button as anything else; still
  
  (2) Every Saturday morning, I "recalibrate" my US GI Mk IV Eyeball using a scale and a stopwatch, and confirm that I consistently hit doses within a 2 gram range, flow times within a couple of seconds and extraction ratios within a 10 percentage point range (currently, 60% - 70%) by visual inspection;
  
  (3) In my experience and opinion, color and stream shape are simpler and more convenient method of consistently pulling the shot I want than weighing every dose and shot to any meaningful degree of accuracy; and
  
  (4) Weighing the shot during extraction is not only unnecessary but a colossal pain in my ass. But I'm weighing in and not proselytizing; so
  
  (5) To each his own.

BDL

I doubt an artisanal baker ignores visual cues or skips "stick tests" when baking breads or cakes. National bread production is probably at the other extreme, automated to the point that nobody needs to even look at the product prior to shipment. I don't think our espresso production is at the point where we should ignore visual cues.

Thanks for the insight everyone. I just upgraded to a Silvano from a Saeco Classico that I put a PID on and bottomless PF and have been trying to scrub all the barnacles that crept into my technique. My biggest surprise is that the grind setting on the vario is essentially the same range now as it was on the Saeco. I am now using an 18g VST basket and bottomless PF and have been able to go to nutation rather than WDT which is very nice. I'm just trying to banish the occasional sprite w/o having to go back to WDT. With the Silvano, I can now explore a range of doses and grind sizes effectively where the Seaco had to be dosed just right or it all fell apart.

I find that it isn't helpful to me to speak of a blonding "point." Blonding is a process that continues for some period during the course of a shot--the judgement the barista has to make is how blond the shot should be before cutting it off. My experience is that it's very hard for me to evaluate how light the stream has become as the pour is progressing--I have more success looking at the color in the cup immediately after the flow is cut. There, the darker crema around the perimeter of the cup more readily contrasts with the lighter streaks/spots of the last part of the shot. If the tail end of the pour is strikingly pale in contrast, that's good evidence that I overshot (no pun intended), and I can adjust the next shot accordingly.

Regards,
Allen

TheSunInsideYou wrote:I was using Mad Cap's Summer Solstice and was using a 19 in, 27 out (about 70% brew ratio), but I was also watching the blonding point, as i always do. For whatever reason, when my target weight was reached, the blonding appeared to still be holding out so--contrary to my typical weight-based extraction judgment--I allowed the shot to run a bit longer and figured I would tighten up the grind on the next one. But then when I tasted it, it was really obviously over-extracted to an almost undrinkable level. For whatever reason, the true blonding point, or the point at which the coffee is fully extracted, was quite a bit before the actual visual blonding point, which just goes to further confirm that you cannot trust it as a consistent sign that extraction is complete.

With that specific blend, I found it much tougher to spot blonding than I usually do.

Of the possible ways to stop a shot - time, volume, weight or blonding (possibly also include flow rate, which is more difficult to judge), I don't think that there's any one that's always right. Some coffees (or some coffees in the basket I end up using with them) blond very slowly, others change quickly. Some coffees, the blond part of the extraction tastes pretty good, and with others it taste like dishwater.

The best way to dial in a new coffee for me, especially one that's trickier, is to get it in the right range, and then taste a sample from different parts of the pour. This lets me know not only what kinds of flavors I'm getting, but also how important is to cut the shot at the right time. And then different coffees age differently too, some need more adjustments as they get older, some stay very consistent day to day, and a good brew ratio/volume/time one day, might not quite work the a few days later on.

Blonding certainly isn't the perfect sign to stop the shot all the time (or even most of the time?), but it's definitely useful, especially after I know what it tastes like

HB wrote:I doubt an artisanal baker ignores visual cues or skips "stick tests" when baking breads or cakes. National bread production is probably at the other extreme, automated to the point that nobody needs to even look at the product prior to shipment. I don't think our espresso production is at the point where we should ignore visual cues.

I, for one, didn't say that we should ignore blonding, only that it's not always a reliable indicator. I see no reason not to use every clue you possibly can to produce an exceptional cup.

As I suggested in my last post, while I think there are better ways to dial in a coffee than waiting for a blonding point, once you get the shot dialed in it should be possible to note the stream color at termination and use it to cut subsequent shots instead of using time and/or beverage weight.

boar_d_laze wrote:Furthermore, Klatch baristas (all of whom are trained by Ms. Perry) do not use scales for individual shots. They dose with a timed grind, and cut the shot partly by inspection and partly by time. They are expected to use color as a way of determining if the shot runs either too quickly or too slowly, and to note the arc of the stream as well.

"Arc of the stream" suggest to me that they look at the shape of the stream coming out of a spouted portafilter. Is that what you mean? Can you elaborate on what they look for?

boar_d_laze wrote:Weighing the shot during extraction is not only unnecessary but a colossal pain in my ass.

It's not all that hard, but I'm not proselytizing, either.

That said, there are other reasons to weigh dose and beverage. It's by far the most reliable and consistent way to pull a target brew ratio. Otherwise, you must rely on shot volume, which is notoriously difficult to quantify visually, especially because the crema volume often changes as the coffee ages. What began as a Ristretto could end up as a Normale or a Lungo when that happens. So, as long as you weigh to get the right brew ratio, you might as well use it to determine the end of the shot.

boar_d_laze wrote:Furthermore, Klatch baristas (all of whom are trained by Ms. Perry) do not use scales for individual shots. They dose with a timed grind, and cut the shot partly by inspection and partly by time. They are expected to use color as a way of determining if the shot runs either too quickly or too slowly, and to note the arc of the stream as well.

I would think in a busy cafe, that weighing every shot would be too time consuming and therefore, why someone like Klatch wouldn't teach that method. When using timered grinders like the Robur, the dose can vary by a couple of grams easily. For that reason, using a blonding point would make more sense as you are basically pulling shots on the fly. For someone like me who pulls 3-4 shots a day, using weights to ensure consistency is more reliable and allows an easier dialing in process.

Peppersass wrote: "Arc of the stream" suggest to me that they look at the shape of the stream coming out of a spouted portafilter. Is that what you mean? Can you elaborate on what they look for?

I expect they're watching for signs of a change in viscosity. With a bottomless portafilter you can see changes in the shape of the cone indicating a change in viscosity just before or as the color starts blonding. It's a further indication that you've depleted the puck of soluable goodness.