Rainman wrote:...and you're an expert "whacker", right?

I think you mean thwacker.

My lever is too new to make a "thhhhwhack".. for now its quietly "whack"-ing!

Abe Carmeli wrote:It is my impression that the secret ingredient in their barista technique is updosing. 18 grams in a double L/M basket is considered normal by most of the baristas I worked with. At times the impression of the shower screen screw on the spent puck is so deep, it forms a small crater. The updosing is so severe, that in all three competitions the L/M technicians needed to replace the dispersion screen halfway through the competition on all the machines. The baristas will go up to 19 & 19.5 grams at times.

Abe:

Thanks for this post. I find this observation of yours quite intriguing- I'm not in your league in terms of experience but the minute I read your thoughts I said to myself "By George, that's it!" One of those things I also have seen top tier baristas do but never noticed it or had it click in my mind until just now when I read your post. Hmmm, maybe a little more experimenting along these lines is in order...

k7qz wrote:Abe:

Thanks for this post. I find this observation of yours quite intriguing- I'm not in your league in terms of experience but the minute I read your thoughts I said to myself "By George, that's it!" One of those things I also have seen top tier baristas do but never noticed it or had it click in my mind until just now when I read your post. Hmmm, maybe a little more experimenting along these lines is in order...

You're welcome, but before you start experimenting perhaps this little qualifier is in order: Updosing is very machine dependent and you will get varying results. It has to do with head space. On the L/M's & Synessos it works well. It will not work well on some home machines, and may cause uneven extractions.

John,

I am not disagreeing with people's use of your technique. I gave my opinion regarding the question by the OP. I said in the first line of my post, if it works, more power to it. There are people who obviously think it's a great technique, and that is why they get on the forums and praise it. They saw a tremendous improvement in their extraction, and then wonder why it isn't used by most people exclusively. It is because there are other ways that are more advantageous to different people for different reasons. The way I learned, which I described in my first post, works very well for me.

Regarding dose, I dose by sight and the compression / rotation feel while redistributing. I would find it very difficult to dose appropriately using the WDT without doing some sort of redistribution technique after it ... that is if the beans (or grinds) aren't being weighed per dose on a scale. If redistribution needs to be done after the WDT, then why bother if the results are the same or better than without the use of the WDT?

I am also not attacking the use of doserless grinders ... OK, maybe I am ..., but point is that a doserless setup, whether crafted at home or manufactured by the Holy and Divine Mazzer grinder folks, is problematic for flat burr grinders. The WDT is in effect helping fix a problem (clumping) that didn't need to be such a problem to begin with.

Matthew Brinski wrote:Regarding dose, I dose by sight and the compression / rotation feel while redistributing. I would find it very difficult to dose appropriately using the WDT without doing some sort of redistribution technique after it ... that is if the beans (or grinds) aren't being weighed per dose on a scale. If redistribution needs to be done after the WDT, then why bother if the results are the same or better than without the use of the WDT?

I am also not attacking the use of doserless grinders ... OK, maybe I am ..., but point is that a doserless setup, whether crafted at home or manufactured by the Holy and Divine Mazzer grinder folks, is problematic for flat burr grinders. The WDT is in effect helping fix a problem (clumping) that didn't need to be such a problem to begin with.

Matthew, at the risk of repeating myself: I respectfully disagree with your opinions. There is nothing inherently more difficult about dosing with the WDT. Like you, I dose by sight until I have a slight mound in the basket, then stir and level. Your techniques work for you because you have refined them by practice. Mine work for me for the same reason. I'm quite sure that if you took more time to practice with the WDT, you'd develop dosing proficiency. (I'm not saying you should, I'm saying you could.)

Although dosers can help reduce clumping, they tend to throw grinds to one side of the basket, and retain more coffee grounds. So it's a tradeoff. If you like dosers, stick with them. But until I see a better doser design, I'm convinced doserless is the way to go for home use. (BTW, I believe clumping primarily results from grounds getting compressed in the chute - not flat burrs.)

IMHO, the WDT provides several advantages over other distribution techniques. First, it allows you to distribute grounds evenly throughout the basket. Other methods only interact directly with surface grounds, so you don't really know what's happening underneath. Second, it declumps. Third, it offers additional flexibility in dosing. The WDT allows you to downdose by fluffing up the grounds. And it's inexpensive, nearly foolproof, and very easy to teach and learn.

But if you prefer not to use it, that's fine by me. It's not like I get royalties.

Abe Carmeli wrote: The updosing is so severe, that in all three competitions the L/M technicians needed to replace the dispersion screen halfway through the competition on all the machines.

Sort of makes the technical judging something of a farce, no? If the barista is allowed to damage the machine without technical penalty, what's next? Is it allowable to knock the espresso machine onto the ground when you're done to add a little "flair" to your performance (The Who)? Or set it on fire (Hendrix)?

AndyS wrote:Is it allowable to knock the espresso machine onto the ground when you're done to add a little "flair" to your performance?

Barry would know for certain, but the rules state the barista must clean and return the station to its original setup. If they damage the screens in what is judged improper use of the equipment, points should come off.

AndyS wrote:Sort of makes the technical judging something of a farce, no? If the barista is allowed to damage the machine without technical penalty, what's next? Is it allowable to knock the espresso machine onto the ground when you're done to add a little "flair" to your performance (The Who)? Or set it on fire (Hendrix)? :o

...or jump on top of the table (Bobby Flay)?

AndyS wrote:Is it allowable to knock the espresso machine onto the ground when you're done to add a little "flair" to your performance (The Who)? Or set it on fire (Hendrix)?

Now that is something that I would like to see! When WBC goes more mainstream (ya know, whenever WWF and WBC combine) this is the sort thing that would draw a crowd and make good television.

Andy, you could start a similar interest in espresso machines... something like ROBOT WARS with Silvia versus La Marzocco.