A cafe local to me roasts their own beans. The beans are very good. I use them to make espresso at home.

Today, I ordered an espresso from them. They have a $34,000 La Marzocco machine. The espresso was terrible. It didn't even have any crema.

What I make with my Gaggia Classic with an Auber PID controller is so much better (I find this is true of many cafes I go to). I know the barista cares. I was chatting with him and he is enthusiastic about espresso.

What do you think the problem was? Tamping? Beans going stale in the grinder?

I would say most of the times it is poor grinder management. Usually not fine enough grind. Next culprit is stale beans (overusing the hopper). I also see a lot of HX machines not being run with a cooling flush = burnt piss.

A good example is Jackson's coffee in Minneapolis (I decided to call them out). There appears to be decent grinder management, excellent beans (Matador...simply amazing local espresso roast), and most baristas have great loading/tamping technique...BUT the water is simply too hot! Bitter most of the time...when I did go there with a friend and I got the second drink...tasted much better but not perfect. So I will conclude Temp is set too high.

I don't want to blame Jackson's because it could be the service tech's doing but I feel that temp management, water volume, and grinder management is the responsibility of the owners and baristas. Hot summer temps? change the p-stat! Beans a couple days old? start tightening the grind!

Congratulations, you can make better shots than the best cafe.

Perhaps the reason is that you are so awesome that you have nothing more to learn. Perhaps the reason is cluelessness all round. I'm inclined towards the second interpretation, since the most gussied up 4 group LM retails at around 20K.

In any case, great first post.

GatesofDawn67 wrote:What do you think the problem was?

You haven't given any specific information to go on. If you're genuinely curious, ask them. If they judge their espresso great and you think it's terrible, then you've found the problem. If they agree with you that it's terrible, then ask them what happened. In my experience, cafes that serve bad espresso don't know they're serving bad espresso because it's drowned in milk and sugar.

+1

another_jim wrote:Congratulations, you can make better shots than the best cafe.
Perhaps the reason is that you are so awesome that you have nothing more to learn. Perhaps the reason is cluelessness all round.

I remember how incredibly superior I felt when I realized my lattes were actually better than the ones I got at Starbucks. I was sure to tell all my lame $tarbuck$ going friends how much better my coffee was than that swill they were drinking.

After a while, though, I realized what a small accomplishment that was.

Thank you for the replies.

I think the espresso I make at home is OK. There are some cafes I've gone to that definitely pull a better shot than I do. It's just many cafes near me don't do a good job and I end up ordering iced Americanos. Based on the descriptions I read here, I am not sure I have had a truly awesome shot yet.

Jim, you are right. It was the barista who thought the machine cost $34,000.

How do I ask a barista what he thinks of his own pull without sounding like an arrogant ass?

I live on the North Shore above Boston. Does anyone know of any great cafes near me? My favorite so far is the Atomic Cafe at the Marblehead location.

If you FEEL like you're an arrogant ass for asking, than get over it. If it LOOKS LIKE the barista's get slightly defensive, impatient or unsure about everything they just did after you've asked about the espresso than, unless the espresso is exceptional, maybe don't bother in the future.

Again, as I've stated in another thread, the barista SHOULD know about the machines, the process, the why, how and what. If they don't than mostly what they're doing is blindly following parameters they will never have the courage to adjust themselves and they don't know the answers to your questions about the coffee.

There are many cafes/bakeries that tend to believe the parameters aren't as important as the beans. The funny thing about this situation is that they tend to choose stale beans that have status like Illy or Lavazza or whatever they think their Italian/espresso drinking customers THINK are the best. They tout the beans they're using with so little regard for the process of pulling the shot that NO BEANS would have a chance in that coffee grinding operation.

A coffee joint I frequent I know has most baristas that know very little about the coffee universe outside of how to adjust their parameters. For instance, they can't really say much about different coffees or even want to talk about them. But, the good thing about these guys/gals is they actually know how to work the machines and can talk about THEIR EXPERIENCE with the coffee they're pulling without trying to bull$hit. You can tell they're not trying to fake through with jargon and taste/aroma descriptors they read off the bag. I appreciate the effort and they pull GOOD shots, wish the consistency for exceptional was there though...

Most coffee shops have decent equipment. If the coffee is good and the shot is bad, the barista is probably the problem. Many are poorly trained at best, and just don't give a sh** at worst. I've been to a few cafes where which barista you get makes a big difference. Although no crema almost always means stale coffee.

I've physically been to Atomic Cafe all of once, but they pulled me a pretty mean shot. Definitely better than I can do with their coffee at home (I've bought it online several times). So if you feel like you're on par with them, you're doing alright.

A little out of your way but well worth your while: go to George Howell's cafe in Newtonville. Guarantee you they will pull you a spectacular shot. Great pourover coffee too.

Now that you've learned what's acceptable, you're surprised that -- even with the right equipment -- not everyone can produce an acceptable shot consistently. Lucky you, and welcome to Hell. That's the next step in your education. Equipment can only take you so far; coffee is not entirely "by the numbers;" and the best equipment is not proof against poor technique.

Considering that your bad coffee was pulled at a cafe which roasts its own and has a good rep, then based on "no crema," I'd guess under-saturation resulting from lousy distribution (causing channeling), a too-coarse grind, or both. Either way, it's barista related.

No competent barista would serve a shot without crema. Res ipsa loquitur, QED, and PDQ.

You have to decide whether you want to refuse the shot and speak up with the classic, polite expressiohn, "WTF!?" and see if that doesn't help; or just move on to someplace with better staff.

BDL