Since Thursday 7/30, when Silvia arrived, I've been using the stock Rancilio double basket in a bottomless PF. Since I decided to start out with 14g doses, I'm mostly using Terroir's SO Chania Kenya Titika, espresso roasted about a week ago. I've also tried some of Chris Coffee's Machristay Black Pearl blend, roasted on 7/14 but frozen until 7/30. I've pulled lots of sink shots, a few somewhat drinkable shots, and maybe two good shots (that's "good", not "god".)

My technique has been to grind and thwack the dose into a small glass bowl, add or remove grounds to achieve the desired dose, then spoon carefully into the basket. I use a small thin wooden stick to do WDT, even out the top with a teaspoon, and tamp. I've not been getting severe side spurts or anything like that, but I can see some minor channeling (areas that briefly go very blond.) Still experimenting with distribution and tamp pressure.

But the main problem until this morning has been that the pours are too fast (true of both the Kenyan and Machristay.) The cone collapses and the pour turns blond 10-15 seconds into the pour, at most, and the volume is almost always 1.5 ounces or less. I tried various remedies, such as grinding a little finer, tamping a little harder and going up to 15g doses. The results were a little better, but not great. Taste wasn't particularly good, with sour or bitter being dominant depending on whether I let the blond run a bit. The coffee isn't stale (I can still see light flecks), so I don't think that's the problem.

Another clue is that my pucks haven't looked right after the pour. There has usually been a pool of water on top of the puck, and the grounds have been so saturated that they knock out as a muddy, blobby mess instead of a coherent puck. Doesn't look at all like the many videos I've watched, and cleaning the knock box has been a pain.

Part of the problem could be pressure. I've got a pressure gauge on order and will build a PF gauge so I can check the OPV.

Having read about them here and elsewhere, I had ordered an LM ridgeless basket before Silvia arrived. In another thread, another_jim mentioned to me that Silvia's baskets are lousy (he might have said they suck.) So this morning I tried the LM basket and immediately got much better results. I started out with a 14g dose of the Kenyan SO and ground a little finer. I used a fairly heavy tamp. I had been concerned that the tamper would bottom out with the lower dose, but it wasn't a problem. This time, the pour was way too long, probably 40 seconds, and the shot was terrible. So I backed off the grind and tamp pressure. The result was the first really decent shot I've pulled with Silvia, at least from a parametric standpoint: correct volume, good crema volume, good crema color. Best of all, the shot tasted pretty good.

Not only that, the puck knocked out of the PF as a coherent, somewhat dry disk, and fell right out of the box when I cleaned it. No more mud.

While drinking that shot, I pulled another shot with the Black Pearl. I ground a tad finer because that coffee is a little older. Once again, I got a good shot from a parametric standpoint, and it actually tasted a bit better than the Kenya. Not sure why that is, since the SO should be better at the low dose. Just for practice, I successfully frothed some milk (using a 12 oz pitcher and Silvia's touchy 3-hole wand, no less), and made a very nice latte for myself (well, I blew the art, but the white blob made it to the surface and the consistency of the microfoam was very good.) Despite wasting a good shot on a milk drink, this is real progress from a skills standpoint!

As far as the baskets go, all I can see visually is that the Silvia basket has straight sides and a ridge, while the LM has more bowl-shaped sides, no ridge, and a smaller perforated area at the bottom. Why did changing the basket make such a big difference? What is it about Silvia's baskets that produces poor results? Why is the LM basket better? Is there something good about being ridgeless?

It is all about dose... The basket with the ridge holds less coffee and require a finer grind to produce the same results. My guess is your fast pour is either due to the coffee hitting the dispersion screen or the grind not being fine enough. I used to have a silvia and I experienced the same thing and my spaziale has the same characteristics. How many grams of coffee are you using per double?

I said the Rancilio single basket is unusable (the challenge of posting an uncut video of using one in a successful naked extraction still stands) .

The double is fine, but designed for about 2 gram lower doses than the LM basket. Most people greatly prefer the LM basket with the Silvia.

I'm guessing you have the new v3 for the Silvia, I read elsewhere that the pressure was set to 9.5 and if true then pressure is not the likely culprit.

I have v2. As for a muddy puck, dose higher and grind a little coarser if necessary. I often use the Rancilio double basket. I found great improvement when I concentrated on the outer edge of the puck.

In short, try these adjustments. Dose directly into the portafilter/basket (I dose then level off with a credit card). Dose a little more than before. Use a reasonable tamp pressure (not too light) and be sure the outer edge of the puck is well tamped, and that the tamp is level.

You may also want to check temp surfing. Just be sure that the water isn't boiling hot when you start your shot.

another_jim wrote:The double is fine, but designed for about 2 gram lower doses than the LM basket. Most people greatly prefer the LM basket with the Silvia.

But I'm only using 14g and 15g doses. You're not saying Silvia's stock baskets are designed for about 2g lower than that, are you? Anyway, the LM basket definitely performed better at 14g.

I forgot to mention that my Silvia is PIDed, so temp is not a problem. And yes, it's a V3. Hadn't heard about factory pressure being lower on the new model.

My goal has been to get good shots with a 14g dose or thereabouts, based on the theory that these machines are designed for such a dose and will perform better and more consistently at that level. I've tried dosing a little higher, but only once or twice, and not above 16g. My plan is to experiment with updosing once I get good results at 14g.

UFGators wrote:It is all about dose... The basket with the ridge holds less coffee and require a finer grind to produce the same results. My guess is your fast pour is either due to the coffee hitting the dispersion screen or the grind not being fine enough. I used to have a silvia and I experienced the same thing and my spaziale has the same characteristics. How many grams of coffee are you using per double?

No, the basket with the ridge holds more coffee. But at 14g, neither puck hits the dispersion screen.

Faema makes two double baskets, nominally 12 and 14 grams. The stock Rancilio double is closer to the 12 gram in size. It has fewer holes at the base, and less headspace than the LM basket. The Rancilio basket will work fine with 14 grams (in the sense of not hitting the screen), but the grind will usually be finer and the extraction higher using the same dose in the LM basket than the Rancilio one. This may be more to your taste.

another_jim wrote:Faema makes two double baskets, nominally 12 and 14 grams. The stock Rancilio double is closer to the 12 gram in size. It has fewer holes at the base, and less headspace than the LM basket. The Rancilio basket will work fine with 14 grams (in the sense of not hitting the screen), but the grind will usually be finer and the extraction higher using the same dose in the LM basket than the Rancilio one. This may be more to your taste.

Interesting. Before trying the LM basket, I had been using the basket in a Rancilio bottomless PF I got from Chris Coffee. I have not used the basket that came with the stock PF in my V3 Silvia. Today, when I removed the spout from the stock PF in preparation for turning it into pressure gauge, I noticed its double basket was quite different from the one that came in the bottomless PF. I guess it's the stock Rancilio basket. As you say, it's noticeably smaller than the LM basket, probably closer to 12g. This makes me wonder what basket came with the bottomless PF. It's nearly a 1/4" deeper than the LM basket and has much straighter sides. More holes in the bottom, too. There are no markings on it. Of the three baskets I have (not counting the single stock basket that came with Silvia), it's by far the largest. Could it be a triple?

If your bottomless PF from Chris is anything like mine it came with a so called "triple basket". I think it holds 20, 21 grams and won't fit in any regular Rancilio PF. That's too high of a dose for any use I have. I prefer to use a 16 gm ridgeless basket although the standard Rancilio double basket works fine too.

The basket that came with your Rancilio Bottomless(if you got it from Chris) is a LM triple Basket, 21gr. You can get 26grs in there. Its a big one.

I dont use it often, but some blends, Klatch in particular, do very well.

There has been much discussion about size or volumetric size of the basket, but what about the relationship of the distance between screen and where your grinds lay in the basket.

I am using a ridgeless LM double with about 16g. That leaves a pretty good distance between the screen and the grinds. After my pucks are pockmarked like the moon and often soft or soggy. They make 25 second pours that taste great, but made me think that if I am using 16g double maybe its better to have a smaller volumetric basket to bring the grounds closer to the screen, as not to disrupt the surface so much.

I mean if there is a great distance between the screen and grounds the first shots of water hitting the puck will break up the smooth surface more won't it ?

Makes me want to fill more in the double basket like you see many bars do, just fill to the brim, sweep off the top, tamp and go. Filling to half the basket is much harder to perfect evening the surface flat.