post reply:

After experimenting with several different baskets that I have, with between 17 & 18g I have found that the puck stays more intact when filling a basket with less volume causing the grains to be closer to the screen.

This makes perfect sense as there will be less splash when the grounds are lying in a deeper basket.

So its possible to have firm puck, good flow, and less soupy pucks by using smaller volume baskets

JmanEspresso wrote:The basket that came with your Rancilio Bottomless(if you got it from Chris) is a LM triple Basket, 21gr. You can get 26grs in there. Its a big one.

I dont use it often, but some blends, Klatch in particular, do very well.

Aha. Yes, I got it from Chris. This explains why my pucks were a soggy mess: I was putting only 14g in the triple basket that came with the bottomless PF. The LM double has been working much better, though I've mostly been playing with 16g doses of Black Cat. I'll compare the LM double with the stock Silvia double and see how that goes. I've got some Ethiopian SO from Terroir that might do well at 14g.

I do have some Klatch WBC in the freezer. I'll try a big old 21g dose of that in the triple at some point.

The ridgeless "Marzocco Style" basket that EPNW sells, while it is a double basket, holds more then a traditional ridged basket.. Like the Faema baskets that come with most E-61 machines. Ive got a couple faema baskets, but they dont see too much use.

As for using 14gr in the triple basket, I imagine you were having a bit of trouble leveling that off, or at least getting it even to tamp! When I use that basket, the lowest I dose is like 22 grams... usually more like 25. Thats why I bought a Synesso-sourced 18gr ridgeless basket. Its like a bid double/small triple. I can do 23 grs MAX in there. Anymore and Im smashing the screen. I like that basket a lot, I use it very often, along with my 14gr Synesso basket. Those are my two faves.

If it matters, 16grs is a low dose for me. Generally Im dosing 17-18gr for a double basket, and 20-23 for the 18gr basket. I dont use the LM 21gr much, but it does see some use. Mainly for Klatch blends, and a few home roast blends i do for high doses. The sole, underlying reason why I dont use it much, is because I BLAST through a bag with that basket. 4 shots and you use 100grs. Sometimes I pull triple that in a session, let alone what I do in a day. Plus, its a little finicky. I find that concentrating on the outer rim when distributing helps out. Also, when I switched to a convex tamper, I saw some improvements with that basket. I havent used a flat tamper since, and as of right now, dont much want to again.

If you're gonna try out the LM 21gr basket, Id start at 23grs and see what you want to do from there. If you find you like triples, but have some trouble with that basket, head over to EPNW and pick up the absolute last basket on their list, the "Synesso" 18gr basket. Id imagine its pretty close to the "real-deal", but in any case, its a nice size in between a normal double and the LM triple.

dgreen wrote:My goal has been to get good shots with a 14g dose or thereabouts, based on the theory that these machines are designed for such a dose and will perform better and more consistently at that level. I've tried dosing a little higher, but only once or twice, and not above 16g. My plan is to experiment with updosing once I get good results at 14g.

The goal is to get the best tasting shot. If it takes 9 or 10 or 11 or 12, use that dose.

Dose for the coffee. Full Stop.

See And sometimes you have to updose

cafeIKE wrote:The goal is to get the best tasting shot. If it takes 9 or 10 or 11 or 12, use that dose.

Dose for the coffee. Full Stop.

See And sometimes you have to updose

Thanks for the link. A problem for newbies like me is that I might read an extended discussion, like Ken Fox's 2007 Basket Overdosing thread, and maybe even some derivative threads, but may not find all the relevant comments that have been made on the subject over a period of years. The above thread filled in some gaps.

The more recent discussion inspires me to try an experiment tomorrow morning. I've got an Ethiopian SO and Black Cat on hand. I've been dosing both at about 16g and the shots have been pretty good, but not great. Think I'll try taking the Ethiopian to 14g and the Black Cat to 20g or so and see what happens.

Question on baskets, which is what started me on this thread. I think if I completely fill the LM ridgeless double with a big pile of Black Cat, tap the PF, and fill again, I'm going to wind up with about 20g. I tried this once before and that's what I got. But it seems to me the chance of the cake expanding and hitting the shower screen would be greater in this case than if I used the triple basket that came with the bottomless PF. Should I use the triple basket for the higher dose?

With the Silvia, I don't see a problem getting a little impression from the hex screw. If I get a slight hex head impression in the puck, I figure I have the basket filled about right and it will come out cleanly and be drier than a smaller dose in a larger basket. If it really bothers you there are some flush-head modifications that have been done, but I don't see the advantage other than aesthetics as long as you clean the brew-head properly after each shot.

Other than the wet-puck syndrome, the real problem to me with using a smaller dose in a basket made for a larger volume is that it has more or larger holes and is designed to pass more volume through in the same 25 seconds as a smaller basket. To get a 25 second shot with lower doses in a large basket, the grind has to be even finer and/or tamp firmer. That has to affect shot quality and consistency.

As has been said, some coffees want a slightly higher dose than others. I also find that I like a slightly lower dose for straight espresso than for a cappuccino. Having a number of baskets handy seems to be the best way to handle those variables. About the only time the triple basket comes out is when I make two milk drinks at one time, however.

another_jim wrote:The Elektra definitely does not like the puck to hit the screen. I think this is also true, to a lesser extent, with the Silvia, but few people agree with me. Let us know what you think.

Can't speak for the Silvia, but I definitely concur re: the Elektra!

Today's followup: I wasn't too successful dialing in a 20g shot with Black Cat. Need to work on it more, but ran out of coffee. Will try WBC at that dose next.

OTOH, I made some good progress dialing in the Ethiopian Ademe Bedane SO from Terroir at 14g. Got the grind in the right range this morning, though not quite spot-on. Then this afternoon I lowered the brew pressure from about 10 bar to about 9 bar and got a couple of very tasty shots after tuning the grind some more. I used the LM basket on the theory that it would keep the puck further away from the shower screen.

I've been using Moka Harrare with 17g in a basket from an Oscar in the LaVibiemme PF. This gets the level just below the ridge. So the Pucks are still nice and firm, the pour is longer than 25 seconds though in order to get 1 oz (split spouts) but the taste has been better than ever. I would say 35 seconds to arrive. Is this too long to make things happen correctly, or what ever works is appropriate.

I can also make it work with 15-16g with 25 seconds to taste good, but really hate those muddy pucks that you get when the level is so low in a double basket. Aesthetically does not go well with my ritual in my minds eye of what should be....