When people say "sweet espresso", does it actually have sweetness? - Page 2

by **yakster** on Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:41 pm

I recently made a change in my regular roasting profile (slowing the roast after the beans yellow) to enhance the sweetness of the coffee before caramelization and was particularly pleased with the results with a roast of El Salvador - Apaneca-Llamatepeq. The coffee prepared as a pour-over had a nice, crisp green apple flavor and I pulled a shot of this last night on my Gaggia Factory and it reminded me of a green apple jolly rancher candy. Now I just have to work on repeating the experience. Another recent roast, Brazil Joao de Campos Yellow Catuai, had pretty clear chocolate notes. I consider these flavor analogs where some compounds in the coffee remind you of sweet, tart apples or chocolate but I wouldn't say that the taste or the sensation is the same.

Having said that, for people who drink coffee without sweetener added, you can perceive sweetness, but it is going to be a subtle thing and harder to detect if you normally add sweetener to your coffee and become accustomed to the taste of the sweetener, but if you drink quality freshly roasted coffee, you'll notice reduced bitterness and staleness. I've had family members comment to me in the past (and this Thanksgiving) that they don't need to add sugar to my coffee, the advantage of home-roasting is having fresh coffee (and roasting it the way you like it).

I don't think that I'll ever be able to wean my Wife off of sweeteners, I think she is just more sensitive to bitterness than I am even though we both don't drink sodas and try to avoid highly processed foods, but I think that many people can acquire the taste for black coffee, if they wish, which may help better appreciate the nuances in coffee. I've never had a problem with people adding milk, cream, sugar, or what-have-you to coffee, I've just never acquired the taste for it myself having been raised on black coffee.

by **Peppersass** on Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:14 am

I'm with John. I've never tasted sweetness in espresso in the same way I taste sweetness in food products normally considered to be sweet. But when the sour and bitter flavors in a well-prepared shot of high-end coffee are in perfect balance, then the cup tastes better to me than any sugar drink could possibly taste. I just don't experience this as sweet.

What's interesting is that when I got hooked on espresso in France and Spain (perhaps not the best places to do so), I followed local custom and dumped the entire extra-large bag of sugar in the cup. I loved the syrupy sweet concoction, and this is what led me to try my hand at brewing home espresso. But I quickly found that adding any sugar or artificial sweetener to the shots I make at home completely ruins them and I just can't tolerate it unless I'm trying to rescue a bad shot, don't have time to brew another and need a caffeine fix ASAP. This applies equally to straight shots and milk drinks.

I suspect that the high-end single-origin coffees I drink simply are not at their best in the presence of added sugar -- at least to my taste buds. It could be that if I brewed some of the cheap coffee I had in France and Spain that I'd love it with a tablespoon of sugar.

I should point out that I make lattes for my wife and daughter using high-end coffee, but they always use a little sugar. Nevertheless, they think I make the best coffee in town. Unfortunately, for them the pleasure of drinking coffee is somewhat akin to drinking hot chocolate. They won't give the unsweetened drink enough of a try to appreciate the taste without it being masked by sugar.

by **mitch236** on Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:14 am

I find perfect shots do taste sweet to me. I've noticed the most sweetness coming from fruity SO's that are well balanced, like the recent CC offering Idido. I agree that it isn't a sugar type sweetness but more of a fruit type. When you balance the acid with the bitter, the middle ground shines and that's where the sweetness resides. When I had my "god shot" experience at Caffe Streets in Chicago, the shot tasted so sweet and well balanced despite having almost no bitterness. It was an impossible shot of high acidity that still had balance. I still don't know how they did it.

I find the comfort blends to be less sweet tasting to me. To my palate, most blends with predominant chocolate taste dark. They are powerful and great but even with great balance, the sweetness just doesn't shine as brightly as the fruity espressos.

by **aecletec** on Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:39 am

I too have had espresso that tasted like sweetener has been added even though I saw the shot pulled and knew it did not. That said, the particular cafe where these shots came from did just recently dominate a regional competition...

by **LaDan** on Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:32 pm

I find the comfort blends to be less sweet tasting to me. To my palate, most blends with predominant chocolate taste dark. They are powerful and great but even with great balance, the sweetness just doesn't shine as brightly as the fruity espressos.

What do you mean by "comfort blends"?

by **bowie** on Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:49 pm

The OP referenced his bitter cappa's also. When milk is steamed properly it tastes almost saccarine to the point that adding sweetener will bring it over the top as far as being unbearably sweet. The ability to get your milk to consistently taste like this is arguably easier than getting your shots to taste like whatever your perceived idea is of what a sweet shot of espresso should taste like...

BTW, IMHO, Bro....

by **RapidCoffee** on Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:06 pm

bowie wrote:When milk is steamed properly it tastes almost saccarine...

Oh puh-leeze. Pardon my bluntness, but this is nonsense.

by **Benjammer** on Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:43 am

I usually enjoy my cappuccino's with a little bit of sugar (or agave nectar, which is a healthier alternative to sugar).
I've had an cappuccino or two at good cafes that properly steam/microfoam milk to the right temperature where it sweetens it naturally (something about the milk proteins changing around 150-160f). I could drink it without having to add any sugar since it had a nice natural sweetness to it in that case, although adding some sugar makes it even tastier of course

If you're talking about straight espresso, I think some have a less harsh/strong/over-roasted taste than others, they could be described as sweeter possibly, where you taste more of the beans properties.

Ben

by **bigbad** on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:10 pm

The first time I visited Intelligentsia on Silverlake, the espresso was indeed sweet. There was pretty much no bitterness. I was stunned, 'cause I'd never had espresso anywhere near what that tasted like. All of the shots I've extracted on my Silvia to that point, was fairly acidic.

The shot I had on that first visit was eye-opening. It didn't have any bitter/acidic aftertaste to it, whatsoever.

That said, subsequent visits to the same Intelligentsia were not as rewarding. All the shots I've ordered since then, have been pretty acidic. I would say it's still only half as acidic as what I get on the Silvia... but it's still pretty acidic to the point that I just stopped ordering espresso when I got there. Now I just go for the beans... which is incredibly awkward, by the way, 'cause everyone goes there for a drink. I've never seen anyone else go there just for the beans, like myself. And the baristas always look at me strange when I tell them I'm just gonna go with the beans, and of course, they offer to have them ground.

by **another_jim** on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:57 pm

bigbad wrote:The first time I visited Intelligentsia on Silverlake, the espresso was indeed sweet. There was pretty much no bitterness. I was stunned ... That said, subsequent visits to the same Intelligentsia were not as rewarding. All the shots I've ordered since then, have been pretty acidic.

This is the essence of the matter -- not "is the espresso sweet" but "are the bitters and acids being controlled well enough to balance the taste"


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