whitedime wrote:is the toroid that pitcher with the post/collumn in the middle?

is that a gimmick or does it really work.

It works.

The "whirlpool" would correspond to the horizontal swirl, discussed in that video I posted earlier. My experience was like the video in that the whirlpool wasn't good enough.

I needed that vertical "rolling" to really get the laquer-paint microfoam texture.

SonVolt wrote:When you use your Toroid do you go by the instructions of pointing the tip directly down the middle? I think I've been using the Toroid like a standard milk pitcher and wonder if that's working against me.

Yes, I point it straight down. I adjust the Classicas steamwand up/down if needed, but the Toroid just stands on the drip tray. The steam tip on my Classica has two holes. I wait until the boiler PID show about 125 degrees C or more. I usually do a small amount in the small Toroid, third mark from bottom, that's 130g measured with water by weight. But it works just the same with more.

For me the big thing is getting the swirling action, not just lots of turbulence. I do use the Toroid but find the swirling better than aiming at that middle and hoping for the best- might be different in different machines, as that is with a low powered Silvia, and I can't seem to get the folding action at the same time.

Shawn is dead on regarding the vertical roll versus the toilet bowl swirl. I also use the toroid but I treat it like a regular pitcher and always get good results. I got good results with the toroid and La Pavoni, too, which can be a difficult one to steam on. The amount of milk your steaming matters and each machine/pitcher combo will react differently with the amount of milk you're using. Play around a bit and keep practicing. I couldn't get much from the dish soap method. I figured a 6-8 bucks for a couple gallons of milk to practice on is nothing compared to the money we're spending. I also use whole milk exclusively, rarely anything too fancy, just whatever is at the local market. I like the texture and flavor of whole milk in a latte/capp

Just keep practicing and if you're feeling really frustrated post a video and we'll tear it to shreds...

THANK YOU everyone for your help. I simply placed the wand along the spout, used milk right to the base of the spout, and off I went, I actually made it perfectly the VERY FIRST TIME. Again thank you everyone for the tips.

not trying to "toilet bowl swirl" was what really did it for me, I think.

SonVolt wrote:When you use your Toroid do you go by the instructions of pointing the tip directly down the middle? I think I've been using the Toroid like a standard milk pitcher and wonder if that's working against me.

I have the Toroid, and pointing the tip directly down the middle does not work for me. But I am able to get very good milk with it steaming a more conventional way. I also have 2 Motta pitchers and much rather prefer those. I think the Toroid would work better using a machine that doesn't have a lot of steam power.

I'm also using the PP700 - so what do you like about the Motta over the Toroid? I may have to order one.

SonVolt wrote:I'm also using the PP700 - so what do you like about the Motta over the Toroid? I may have to order one.

I prefer the spout and the actual body shape of the Motta over the Toroid, it is also thicker and heavier as well. I personally find it easier to steam and get a better whirl pool or roll with the Motta, which ever method is preferred. But again this is my personal opinion. I'm sure there are many out there that can steam great milk out of the Toroid. But when I apply like for like technique with both pitchers, I get better more consistent results with the Motta. The bevel in the middle of the Toroid makes the pitcher too unpredictable for me. Especially when steaming milk half asleep