What do you think the brew pressure is with the Peppina? Maybe you could try significantly lowering your HX's brew pressure?

hperry wrote:So effectively you are using it more like a Caravel than a Peppina.

Yes, but the pressure gauge & TC on my Peppina make all the difference in consistency. The difference between 9bar, 7bar or 10bar can't be measured by hand; at least not mine. I can't see how a Caravel can be modded for consistent pulls.

hperry wrote:My Peppina shots are more like you describe the Caravel. But, I'll have to admit that early on I liked the Caravel better and sort of gave up on the Peppina

The instrumentation on my Peppina made me like it more. If you want to give it a shot, here's something you could try: setup your grinder for 20g, load & tamp, pull the lever down till you feel resistance on going up, help the lever on it's way up all the way till you stop the shot.

hperry wrote:Also the machine is not the only variable (as is the case in so many of these discussions). The grinder, coffee and barista are also parts of the equation that we are not considering.

Right, coffee & grinder being the same, I'm hoping this thread could result in a change of tech for my HX, but what?

sweaner wrote:What do you think the brew pressure is with the Peppina? Maybe you could try significantly lowering your HX's brew pressure?

Went the other way, didn't work, here's a quote from above:

coffee.me wrote:Oh, neither can I ever make my Peppina produce shots similar to the HX's; even with no preinfusion and full 9bar pressure on the lever during the whole shot.

Max,

You put the pressure gauge on the nose, right along with a brew temp thermocouple? I saw that, but didn't want to spoil La Peppina's pretty face. Hmm, now I'm going to reconsider since you say it makes such a difference.

The Wife's not going to like this..

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Had a nice 12 g double (Ritual's Snowcone) this morning and now that I'm home from the dentist I ground up 20 g in the Kyocera and tried to pack it into La Peppina's double. I was only able to pack 19.2 g into the basket, no need for the AeroPress funnel as the Kyocera's grounds chamber fits over (but not inside) the 45 mm basket.

Wow, that's sweet espresso love. I'm going to have to reconsider the 12 g double with finger tamps for leveling now. I had to help the lever up, but it was worth it. It had great body and flavor and the crema was good where it's usually a little on the thin side. The only real problem I had was trying to get the puck out of the filter.

As to your original question, I'm not qualified to answer as La Peppina is my only machine that makes great espresso.

How many grams do you pack into a single?

My only question was how the hell are you getting 20g into that basket?

I have problems getting 17 of 18 in there.

-C

how the hell are you getting 20g into that basket?

Different bean types can take up to twice the volume for the same weight (ie. Brazil & Kenya). I guess that's what's happening.

Cheers

If the shots from this Baron Muenchhausen Peppina are like those of my pedestrian PIDed Peppina, well pulled singles on a many pump machines, particularly the Elektra Semi, are quite similar to the shots from an LP. They are the reason I gave mine up.

Jim, while I have to respect your opinion, I can't ignore your "Baron Muenchhausen" remark. Have you actually done 20g, lever assisted to 8+ bar, temp monitored, double ristrettos on your Peppina before giving up on her?

This isn't about promoting my Peppina, this is a genuine question that I need help with. I prefer using my HX for convenience and speed, just can't make it emulate my Peppina shots. Can you help with that? I suspect it's about dosage, my tech, and extraction yield(which I don't understand very well). So, a 20g double on the Peppina kicks any butt, 20g on the HX doesn't, your suggestions would be?

And no, they're nothing like the singles I tried on my HX, or any shot I've had elsewhere.

yakster wrote:Wow, that's sweet espresso love.....I had to help the lever up, but it was worth it. It had great body and flavor and the crema was good

EXACTLY!! It's also smooth, round without rough edges, full of flavor, tastes like the ground coffee smells! It's like nothing else I've had. Now I want that on my HX.

yakster wrote:You put the pressure gauge on the nose, right along with a brew temp thermocouple?

Yeah, she doesn't look good anymore, ugly really. But I wanted the measurements to guide me. That said, I can easily revert her back to original condition.

yakster wrote:How many grams do you pack into a single?

Singles never worked as well for me.

coffee.me wrote:This isn't about promoting my Peppina, this is a genuine question that I need help with. I prefer using my HX for convenience and speed, just can't make it emulate my Peppina shots. Can you help with that? I suspect it's about dosage, my tech, and extraction yield(which I don't understand very well). So, a 20g double on the Peppina kicks any butt, 20g on the HX doesn't, your suggestions would be?

And no, they're nothing like the singles I tried on my HX, or any shot I've had elsewhere.

I do think the character of lever and pump shots are different. I have never been able to get the same taste from shots from either my HX or DB that I have from the various levers - particularly the commercial one. I have found a way with the Dalla Corte to get very satisfying shots by carefully adjusting dose, grind and temperature. But there is a certain richness, "softness," and depth to the lever shots that I haven't been able to equal with a pump machine. I also think temperature is a big deal on pump machines, and I never mastered precise temperature control when I was using the HX - whereas it is fairly simple with the DB. For reasons that are beyond my understanding temperature seems to be less important with the levers (at least within a fairly broad range) than it is with pump machines

coffee.me wrote:I can't ignore your "Baron Muenchhausen" remark. Have you actually done 20g, lever assisted to 8+ bar, temp monitored, double ristrettos on your Peppina before giving up on her?

No. I would occasionally assist the lever to keep the flow steady, but never monitored the pressure. My doses were around 14 to 16 grams. 20 gram dose ristrettos from a lever machine strike me as a mismatch; since I was always looking for delicacy and flavor definition. That is what I found, along with better body, in the Elektra.

My Muenchhausen eyebrow is directed at your claim of intra-shot temperature profiling. My understanding was that that once the shot is in progress, the shot water is in the piston cylinder, and even throwing ice cubes into the tank wouldn't do much of anything. The heater does also directly heat the group, but the effect would surely be too slow to make much of a difference intra-shot.

Hal, did you give it a shot? If I can do it, everybody should, it's that simple .... just use good coffee.

Here are a few tips to get what I'm getting:

A. Make sure you have very well functioning seals: 1. You pull the lever, water should fall out of the GH immediately. 2. You raise the lever, nothing goes back to the kettle. 3. Mid-shot should act the same too! 4. Use a full kettle, it helps gets the water down faster.

B. The good stuff is at 1.5oz+ ristretto from around 20g, reasonably tight grind, tamped hard once(if that matters, but I use my Versalab). Grind should be tight enough to require pre-infusion.

C. Temp difference between kettle & near coffee is NOT constant. Without instrumentation, if you want ~202.5 at the coffee, do this: 1. Boil hard, real hard. 2. Turn it off. 3. Slowly pull two empty ones. 4. Lock and go slowly.

D. Pressure is very dynamic without your assistance. It maxes at 6bar on mine without assistance, but it depends on how much water there is in the brew circuit, more=more. Assist the lever, better use a gauge for that to be meaningful.

hperry wrote:But there is a certain richness, "softness," and depth to the lever shots that I haven't been able to equal with a pump machine.

It's like drinking the grinds! And, no, they are thick, crema laden and don't follow the little lever stereotype. I have a crazy thought that might help me get the same from my HX, but I won't embarrass myself and share it till I at least try it.

another_jim wrote:My Muenchhausen eyebrow is directed at your claim of intra-shot temperature profiling.

Temp slope isn't as controllable as pressure but it surely is to a certain point. You need the probes & dimmer to repeat. From my experience, turning off the element pre-shot gives you a significant intra-shot decline. Now, stabilizing or inclining brew temps are trickier to achieve. In a nutshell, for a straight line you adjust your dimmer so the kettle temp is slowly increasing, for an increasing profile you use less water in the kettle, start with lowish brew temp and use full power on the element before starting the shot.

But then, we're not talking about this, Jim. You got ideas to repeat my Peppina yogurt shots on the HX? 26g doses?