My girlfriend and I are new to espresso. We got the Silvia last October. We mainly have milk drinks with 5oz milk to 1oz espresso. I know that a properly prepared espresso is extracted in about 25 seconds. The roaster where we get the beans from recommends a 20-23 second extraction. And indeed, when extracted that way, the straight shots are very good. Not sour and not bitter. But since we never drink straight shots, we find that we like a 30-40 second extraction for our 5oz milk to 1oz espresso. This seem a bit excessive to me but time and time again we keep coming back to it. We've tried 4 different beans from 2 different roasters. All are medium roast.

You are allowed to like it that way.

Time is a slightly arbitrary reference point, and definitely not a part of the recipe. Being that espresso, and especially ristrettos are seriously lacking in sufficient solvent (water) to extract coffee solids, time (as a result of increased surface are) can help get you closer to a proper extraction.

If it tastes good, you are doing it right.

I actually didn't know what a slow ristretto is. Forum admin added it to the title to help the post more specific. I thought ristrettos are ground finer and stopped at the same time as a regular shot but the volume is about half that of a regular shot. I do watch the color during each pour. I typically let a bit of blonde go in the shot. I usually stop a shot 3 seconds after it has gone blonde.

I can usually pull a good straight shot in 25 seconds with the last 3 to 4 seconds as blonde. But again, we don't drink straight shots and a shot like that in 5oz of milk seem to be too milky for us.

flipteg wrote:I thought ristrettos are ground finer and stopped at the same time as a regular shot but the volume is about half that of a regular shot.

No, lower volume espressos (ristrettos) develop more slowly and their final time is longer than normales. For sake of completeness, higher volume espressos (lungos) develop more quickly and their final time is shorter than normales. Al's Rule attempts to codify this observation, though it's really a guideline. For what it's worth, lots of early Rancilio Silvia owners, myself included, gravitated towards deep baskets for pulling slow ristrettos, in part to deal with Silvia's low forgiveness factor. I elaborated on other methods in the research notes for the Rancilio Silvia Review.

flipteg wrote:I can usually pull a good straight shot in 25 seconds with the last 3 to 4 seconds as blonde. But again, we don't drink straight shots and a shot like that in 5oz of milk seem to be too milky for us.

You could try less milk, e.g., a cortado or macchiato.

Go with what you like.
your description makes sense -- the longer the extraction time is, the more "stuff" is added to your shot and thus changes the flavor. In my opinion, the longer (>24sec) the extraction time, the more acidic the short will become. And of course, when combining the flavor with milk, the overall taste of the cup changes. Bottom line - you like it? go with it.

Also try the long black. It's a natural step for when you pull stuff that tastes good but is too strong. Basically pull a double shot on top of a few ounces of hot water. We moved from lattes to cappuccinos to long blacks as my skills improved in pulling shots and roasting coffee.

I kind of regret not drinking a straight shot of home roasted Kenya today. It looked great with lots of crema and a sip was strong but good... But I turned it into a cappuccino and it was a bit bland for my taste.

Flipteg posted:

"

My girlfriend and I are new to espresso. We got the Silvia last October. We mainly have milk drinks with 5oz milk to 1oz espresso. I know that a properly prepared espresso is extracted in about 25 seconds. The roaster where we get the beans from recommends a 20-23 second extraction."

Marshall is 100% correct. This so-called 25 second pull rule is so outdated and misused. My 53mm La Spaziale likes 35 seconds and 30-45g output. My 49mm Cremina likes 25 seconds and about the same volume output as La Spaz using the same beans.
Using the same Pharos for both machines with the same exact grind setting. 16.5g beans in the La Spaz in a double basket. 15.5g in double basket in the Cremina.

I called a roaster recently that had a 25 second pull recommendation on his website. Would not have bothered but happens I like this particular roaster and didn't want him to lose sales.

You should probably have them looked at by a competent barrista, who can determine if you have the rare but serious phillistinean tastebud cancer. Haha, just playing.

You like what you like and there ain't nothing wrong with that.

My shots run 30 seconds minimum, and are on the ristretto end of things. The longer I make espresso, the more normale they become, however. I had a coffee last year that pulled best at 14 grams in and 16 grams out. Very short espresso, but anything else was... wrong. I find the way I pull shots is largely dependent on the coffee I use. My decaf is a 24 second shot, and is actually ground finer, with a larger output volume.