Fullsack wrote:Kirk,
I want to agree with you on this one because what you say makes sense and because I can't figure out the logic behind why my experience is what it is.

Repeatedly, I have been pulling inferior shots when doing WDT longer or faster or deeper in the basket.

What do you mean by saying 'deeper in the basket'? literally putting the needle into greater depth, until it touches the bottom of the basket?

CoffeeOwl wrote:What do you mean by saying 'deeper in the basket'? literally putting the needle into greater depth, until it touches the bottom of the basket?

Yes, I think it brings more fines to the bottom. I usually go 2/3 to 3/4ths of the way.

Fullsack wrote:Yes, I think it brings more fines to the bottom. I usually go 2/3 to 3/4ths of the way.

You could be right, but I'd like to see some evidence of this. Fines supposedly migrate to the bottom of the basket as the shot is pulled, and help control the flow rate. Makes sense, although I haven't seen any data for that either. (Anyone care to start slicing pucks for particle size analysis? ) I'm not smart enough to predict the effect of imposing a particle size gradient in the basket before the shot.

Regardless, I stir all the way down to the bottom of the basket, stopping when clumps are eliminated and the grinds are evenly distributed. I've never noticed any significant impact from different stirring patterns, stir depth, stir duration, etc. Naturally YMMV.

Fullsack wrote:I usually go 2/3 to 3/4ths of the way.

That's the message of the day for me!
I noticed that if I stir with the needle put right to the bottom, I may form a hole in the puck in place from where i take it out in the end. I tried with thinner needle, but it didn't help. I'll try stirring in lighter depth.

EDITS:
21.12.2007
I found it very helpful to not stir to the bottom of the basket but less and to do it more vigorously then I used to, to distribute and level the coffee.
Then I use flat knife to do a sweep (but it doesn't sweep anything off with the dose at 15.5g, eventualy only evens the very top of the pre-puck)