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Watery espresso - not sure about grinder and/or settings

Postby AlexFWD on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:49 pm

On the left is the grind coming from a small sample I took home from Starbucks - they had their machine set at espresso grind.

On the right is the grind coming from my Ascaso i-mini that I bought used. Dont know how much use it has had. The coffee used is not freshly roasted. Should I be grinding finer? The grinds are about the size of regular sugar (not powdered)

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Here below is what the grinds from Starbucks (left) and from the I-mini (right) after they have been smudged on the paper. My concern is that there is a bit more "powdery" leftover grinds with my grinder. For reference, this powder would also appear when grinding freshly roasted coffee (black cat) Is this a sign that I need to either adjust the grind, change my coffee or change the burrs?

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Any comments on my dosing

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Here is what the puck looks like after infusion ( a bit on the soggy side )

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Finally, here's a (low rez) video of the pull. Please comment on whether (if you can see well...) you notice that the shot gets watery at the end.

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Postby newmanium on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:46 am

You need fresh beans, I got similar looking shots from bad hairbender beans. How old are these? And you're going to be limited with that grinder, hard to prevent channeling.
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Postby godshot on Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:27 pm

I'm a newb myself, just starting out on the road to espresso nirvana, so I can't give you any advice yet. But I just have some observations I'll share.

It's difficult to see your images, especially the ground coffee pics. Therefore it'll be hard for anyone to evaluate them. A better camera or lens capable of higher resolution might help, but just increasing the light level considerably will allow your camera to use a smaller aperture, which will result in an increased depth of field. It's the very shallow depth of field from most of your photos that make it hard to evaluate them.

I just started pulling shots yesterday. My pucks are as wet or wetter than yours. I don't think it's a problem, per se. I think it has more to do with how much coffee you are using. I'm weighing 14 grams for my doubles.

Descriptions of particle (grind) size by comparing to supposedly common items like flour, salt, and sugar are highly subjective and therefore not of much value, IMO. Not all common household sugar, salt, or flour is the same grind size, and neither are sand particles. To say that Turkish coffee would be ground as fine as flour would only be true if your flour was rather coarse. To say that espresso would be ground as fine as 10x sugar would only be true if a bag of 4x sugar were mislabeled 10x.

Maybe none of that helps, but I wish you luck. I'm traveling the same path.
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Postby randytsuch on Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:50 pm

So you do need fresh coffee, what are you using now?

What is your shot time.

Rule of thumb, 2 ozs in 25 secs. This is not absolute, but a good goal to shoot for.

Do you have a scale? For a newbie, a gram scale that has a 0.1 gram resolution is a very good tool, so you have consistent amounts of coffee each time, eliminates one variable.

I would also consider getting a bottomless PF, so you can see the extraction.

BTW, what machine are you using?

Randy
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Postby Randy G. on Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:43 pm

Alex,

Forget what the coffee looks like or feels like. For example, one click on a Rancilio Rocky grinder is around .001" but that little adjustment can be as much as three to five seconds of extraction time. There is no way to feel that. Additionally, a commercial grinder puts out a different grind than a home grinder in terms of particle size distribution.

So, first you need fresh coffee. Not from bins in a supermarket, and nothing that says "Best of used by.." on the package. The only date that should be displayed should be a "roasted on" date. The basic rule is:
green coffee is good for 15 months.
Roasted coffee is good for 15 days.
ground coffee is good for 15 minutes.
(and personally I go more towards 12 for the last two)
There are variations to the above "rule" but I hope it gives you an idea.

If the espresso is watery there are a number of factors to look into and they could fell a book. I have an article which I wrote with folks like you in mind. It goes through all the variables and how to address them to get the best possible espresso at home. It is massive, detailed, but written in (mostly) plain language so it is easy to understand and make use of:
12 - EASY GUIDE TO BETTER ESPRESSO AT HOME
Check it out.
Espresso! My Espresso!
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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Postby AlexFWD on Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:41 pm

Thanks godshot and both Randys for the insight.

My coffee right now is a vacuum sealed whole bean product from Costco. This is not fresh coffee but I have had the same issues with intelligentsia coffee.

My shot time is approximately 30 seconds. I more often get less than 2 ounces. I'm using an Andreja.
The issue I have is I either have a pull that gets watery at midpoint or I clog the infusion because I'm packing too tight.

I had read reviews on the conical burr Ascaso I-mini and some pretty extensive tests have put it on top of the Rocky and on par with higher end grinders like the mazzer mini.

I'll definitely go through your guide Randy!
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Postby randytsuch on Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:26 pm

A couple other things that may help you

This is a good guide
Dialing in a new espresso machine, a step by step guide
But to follow it you will need a scale.

Also am sticking with the recommendation to get a bottomless portafilter, this will let you see if you are having extraction issues. I would guess you are, based on your problems.

And you need good, fresh coffee
List of our favorite Roasters

I understand not wanting to "waste" good coffee while you try to figure things out, but you can't pull good shots with stale beans, so you're just wasting time and effort right now. Garbage in, garbage out.

Redbird has very good prices if you buy 5 lbs at a time.
http://redbirdcoffee.com/

People buy 5 lbs, and then freeze them in 3-5 day batches, and pull them out as needed.

Redbird is also supposed to be easy to pull good shots (I haven't tried because I roast my own)

Randy
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