VST prone to spritz with bottomless portafilter? - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
LukeFlynn
Posts: 1293
Joined: 10 years ago

#11: Post by LukeFlynn »

They are easier to get channeling with, especially with lighter roasted coffee.. with comfort blends like Red Bird or CC Big Trouble, channeling doesn't occur nearly as much for me.. If you are going to be using pretty lightly roasted single origin coffees, I suggest you invest in a flat precision 58.5mm tamper like that of the Pergtamp, this one on eBay is also supposed to be pretty good: http://www.ebay.com/itm/T-Espresso-Mach ... 1846852033

I find my Strada/VSTs produce sweeter shots than all of my other baskets, even my HQ-14s.

emradguy
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#12: Post by emradguy »

I've been using Stradas and VSTs for maybe 5 years, and have been using a bottomless pf for even longer. Almost 2 years ago, I bought a M. Major and I single dose with it. I also use a MACAP M4, which I've had for about 8 years. When I use the M4, I can grind, distribute with a Stockfleth's maneuver, tamp an go no problem, but when I use the Major, I have to be very diligent about my distribution or I get (in the better cases) uneven extractions or (in the extreme) sprites and channeling. WDT solved that, so I use it all the time. Oh, and I use a Reg Barber 58.4mm flat tamper. I've tried the C-flat and the Eurocurve, but get the best results with the flat base.
LMWDP #748

IMAWriter
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Joined: 19 years ago

#13: Post by IMAWriter »

brianl wrote:MY logic against the NESW is that it creates too many opportunities for a canted tamp. I do a super light nutating motion just to get the grinds up against the side of the basket (as opposed to the 4 pressured tamps of the NESW). The vst is notorious for donut extractions without this IME.
Is that a Perger tamper? Sure is interesting going into that basket. I can see how easy it makes the nutation movement.

ilker
Posts: 106
Joined: 9 years ago

#14: Post by ilker »

I also have problem with VST baskets. Sometimes I can get decent shots with VST 18gr. But i couldn't get any drinkable shot with VST 15.
Finally I gave up and switched back to stock 14gr Silvia basket. No problems at all. Same as the video, a little WDT+slight nutation move working very well and consistent.

I am also not convinced with NSEW move. Seems nutation is more smooth and consistent for me. I can also feel nutation packs the coffee grounds more tighter and closer in the basket. I know this because if I do nutation, I can clearly see, there is more headspace for the same dose. I can even grind coarser and able to dose much more coffee in the same basket if I want.

I always wanted to ask this question:
Can you still do the nutation movement with VST baskets? Because there is no angle. They are straight.

Thanks

brianl
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Joined: 10 years ago

#15: Post by brianl »

Yes you can nutate with VST baskets but it's less pronounced. In actuality, you could just press along the edge of the tamper to accomplish the same results IME. The nutation is easier.

And speaking of crappy pours. I would evaluate the coffees that you're using. I just picked up a super light roast and i'm having terrible luck. I dont' think the HG One works well with coffees that make it very hard to grind. Basically, if the grinder is flopping around when im trying to grind the shot is usually terrible. I'm first going to brew in my Clever later to rule out it just being an improperly roasted coffee. If it blows me away, i'll try making some shots with the Vario.

Nate42
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Joined: 11 years ago

#16: Post by Nate42 »

My main baskets are a EPNW HQ 14, and a VST 18, which I use depends on the coffee and my mood. I also have a VST 22 but it doesn't get much use.

The VST is definitely less forgiving. My VST pours rarely look perfect, but they don't usually have major issues either. It takes some practice. The occasional spritz probably doesn't matter (or mean) much, but you shouldn't be hosing yourself down afterwards. The occasional small dead spot doesn't seem to impact taste either.

2 things with the VST baskets - 1, the holes go all the way to the edge so the edge matters more. 2, the total area of all holes is larger, so the basket itself does less to regulate flow, making coffee grind and prep that much more important.

IntrepidQ3 (original poster)
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#17: Post by IntrepidQ3 (original poster) »

Thank you all for your input. Sounds like I need to do some more trouble shooting and try a darker roast.
"As you know, an explorer's temperament requires two basic qualities: optimism in attempt, criticism in work."-Freud

kylen
Posts: 8
Joined: 10 years ago

#18: Post by kylen »

So, I have no idea how helpful this will be, but I just figured this out (getting an awesome pour from a bottomless PF).

I can honestly say up until 6 hours ago, getting a bottomless portafilter was the worst thing that has happened to my "coffee game". Shots looked terrible. Half of them wound up all over the countertop or the back of my machine. I went through so much coffee and water my wife was starting to save my sink shots to paint with.

I tried everything. Ground finer, coarser, up dosed, down dosed, longer flush time, shorter flush time, softer tamp, harder tamp, different coffees, less time off roast, longer time off roast, WDT this way vs. that way, tamp this way vs. that way, etc., etc. It has been like 2 months of daily degradatiion.

My problem: my WDT technique was not effective. I was using a fine, 1.25 inch needle and stirring. I tried a new technique and it solved my problem immediately. First, I took the chamber portion of my aeropress and put it over my VST basket. The fit is just about perfect (but you must hold it steady). Then I took a metal kebab skewer (MUCH thicker than the needle I was using) and just went to town on the grounds. Stirred like crazy. Ensured that no clump could possibly be left standing. A couple of countertop thwacks (gently) with the aeropress chamber still on top of my basket, normal tamp with a slight polish. Perfect tigerstripe shot from the get go. No one-sided blonding or spritzing. I'm using a Quickmill Anita and Super Jolly. I don't know if any of this is applicable to different equipment, but i literally don't know what else I would have tried. Apparently the problem all along was my WDT method was ineffective in breaking up clumps.

LukeFlynn
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#19: Post by LukeFlynn »

Interesting, I never had to WDT my SJ after new burrs (I did have the doser model).. that grinder was generally dose, level, and tamp. These days, I suggest avoiding Stockfleth's or a finger level and just tap on the grinder forks and with your palm until the coffee bed is level, this always produces a nice even extraction for me, super fast too.. literally loads of time, which when you are making drinks on a bar, becomes important.

emradguy
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#20: Post by emradguy »

kylen wrote:My problem: my WDT technique was not effective. I was using a fine, 1.25 inch needle and stirring. I tried a new technique and it solved my problem immediately. First, I took the chamber portion of my aeropress and put it over my VST basket. The fit is just about perfect (but you must hold it steady). Then I took a metal kebab skewer (MUCH thicker than the needle I was using) and just went to town on the grounds. Stirred like crazy. Ensured that no clump could possibly be left standing. A couple of countertop thwacks (gently) with the aeropress chamber still on top of my basket, normal tamp with a slight polish. Perfect tigerstripe shot from the get go. No one-sided blonding or spritzing. I'm using a Quickmill Anita and Super Jolly. I don't know if any of this is applicable to different equipment, but i literally don't know what else I would have tried. Apparently the problem all along was my WDT method was ineffective in breaking up clumps.
I suspect what has helped most was getting more aggressive with your technique, not so much changing from a fine needle to a skewer. I've found that in order for WDT to work well, you need a couple of things...1) you need to really get down with your basket, stirring rather aggressively, which requires 2) you need a thing to control/prevent spillage (dosing funnel, cut yogurt container, Aeropress in your case, lol), and 3) you have to make sure your application of WDT spans the entire depth of the puck. I used to be afraid of scraping up my baskets, and my shots suffered from that. Once I realized I wasn't affecting the bottom of the puck enough, I was able to solve my uneven extractions.
LMWDP #748