Hey,

I've decided to start a new topic for the VST filters... Let me know moderators if this is kosher...

I have never had spritzing from the naked shots be an issue until I started using these bad boys. I use the 18g VST filter.

I do believe I've tried just about everything to calm down the spritzing and all to no avail.

Is my puck preparation THAT bad?

Has anyone else experienced this phenomena with these filters?

Any dosing amount results in spritzing that is not fun to watch.

I use WDT sometimes, other times I use my finger to distribute... I think I've tried just about everything that I know would help in minimizing channeling in the puck. These are techniques that have always worked. So, what gives?

Have you read this? if no, this might help you

http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/markprince/04-29-2011

Scroll down to "Using the VST basket"

As finger to distribute is probably not the best thing to use with those baskets. Is your tamper flat bottom?

Thanks for the link. Excerpted for easy reference:

Mark Prince wrote:I'd load up a filter basket with a central pyramid like cone, and avoid touching the coffee at all costs. I also would knock down the loading bed of coffee while grinding - one or two knocks at 1/3 full, another one or two knocks at 2/3 full. The result was a nice, even cone of coffee in the filter basket. This is why I liked the Anfim Super Caimano grinder so much: it can dose a nice even cone every time.

VST baskets or not, I recommend dosing the basket as evenly as possible. The goal is to have a uniform layer of coffee that requires little or no manipulations. The Stockfleths Move and its ilk are essentially distribution corrections; the less you need them, the better. Moreover, if you want to updose by tapping mid-dose as Mark describes, I again recommend "paying careful attention to the landing" (per Jasonian) so the tap doesn't result in a denser layer near the center as would be the case for a pyramid-like cone. The telltale sign of higher center density is uneven, donut-shaped beading.

For what it's worth, I've used the VST baskets at Counter Culture Coffee's espresso lab for the last few months. While I haven't done any side-by-side tests with them and the stock La Marzocco baskets available for years, I haven't noticed any requisite technique change.

Thanks Marc,

I am aware of the article, it was the reason why I even bought one. My technique is not dissimilar to the 'proper' dosing showed by Mark in the article.

I can control the spritzing/JETS if I tighten the grind, but this leads to a long pull, and very slow ristretto style pull which leads to spritzing in the latter part of the pull.

This is frustrating...

Thanks Dan also...

I know of all of this that you have pointed out. Which is makes it even more frustrating. My ridgeless LM double and even my Synesso style double do not create such a frustrating pull for me. I'm going to go back to the other baskets and see if it's BASKET/MANO or just MANO...

I just feel like I couldn't be the only one necessarily experiencing this... maybe it's my machine lol

Ahh, that explains it, we just need a $100 set of plastic cards to use our $25 portafilter baskets properly.

I've found I have to modify my usual routine with the VST baskets. In particular, nutating seems to be detrimental, oddly enough. Right now I am just leveling the basket with my finger and doing a straight tamp down. I can see how a leveling tool might be handy, but I'd make my own before paying that much. My tamper is curved, but I wouldn't mind trying a flat piston with this basket.

I do have a flat and very nicely fitting tamper. I do believe my finger levelling at 19g should be sufficient... I may have other issues not related to the basket. Going to try my other baskets and report back.

Also, I agree that those tools are not useful at that price... he does make a great case for making your own cheap plastic dosing tools....

i had this issue at first, but it was corrected by dosing 17.5gr for the 18gr basket. There is now a 2mm headspace between the puck and the dispersion screen. I also use WDT to get even extraction.

hmmmmm.... I've tried many different dosages and nothing has worked...worked my way up from 16g....

OK so here we go.

Black Cat - newly opened bag roasted on 5/16
I'm not good at discerning flavours other than very TOP LEVEL flavours so I'm just going to mention if I liked it or not.

I did not change grind or dose.

LM Ridgeless double basket
19g - used finger to level and distribute
29s - 25g in the cup

Very little splashing of coffee on the rim due to the distance of about 3 inches from the naked portafilter. I'm not worried about that...

Very delicious - best I've had since I changed to the VST....

VST 18g basket
19g - used finger levelling and made it fairly flat and I never dump any grinds ever... Also I measured the grinds for both dosing experiments after the grind and they were identical.
25s - 30g in the cup

Enough spritzing to make me shake my head. I know I can vary the dose/grind specifically for this basket and get a nicer tasting cup. It was a good cup, but not as nice as the first. But, really the time/liquid in the cup isn't horrible enough that I would NEED to change my dosing/grind, IMHO.

The reason why my pulls look like that is that I cut it either at 30 seconds or at 30g. I sometimes overshoot... I was kinda dialing it in and this was my first shot at this bag... not bad IMHO

This test may not have proved anything other than that you get different flow rate from a different basket.

Ultimately, I know it's not necessarily my dosing/distribution technique, but it has to be, right? The LM Ridgeless performed the way I expected and how it always has. The VST, also performed the way I expected jetting everywhere...

Like I've mentioned before. I've tried different doses, from 16 to 20 grams even, and the jetting/spritzing continues...

I may just abandon the basket...

Spitz.me wrote:Ultimately, I know it's not necessarily my dosing/distribution technique, but it has to be, right?

Before passing judgement I would suggest GRINDING FINER and trying again with the VST.
Adjust the grind quite a bit finer and see if that helps.

After a couple of weeks with these baskets I firmly believe the extraction dynamic is different. Deciding not to adjust your grind for the VST is the same as deciding you don't want to learn what the difference is really about.