Going back to Vince Fidele's Barista Magazine article last year, he explained the target settings for the various styles to be:

• Ristretto - about 13% TDS at ~18%-19% extraction yield, a 66% brew formula
• Normale - about 10% TDS at ~19%-20% extraction yield, a 50% brew formula
• Lungo - about 6.5% TDS at ~20%-21% extraction yield, a 33% brew formula

I didn't find these too difficult to pull in the 7g basket - well - not once I found a workable tamper anyway! But that's no different than the adjustment one makes for any single basket with the shoulders and all - the VST was no trickier than my old baskets. If anything, the VST's tuning toward the finer grind and the better hole coverage made good results a lot easier for me in the 7g area, although I need to admit here that I pull most shots in the 13g - 18g range. A 7g ristretto is a pretty small beverage.

Nice.

What do you think of the shot I posted in that video? Is cutoff too soon or too late?

I have an 18g VST basket, maybe I should get the 15g basket? I need to pick a range to perfect and obviously the 22g is too big. What do you guys think is the best size, I make cappuccinos, macchiatos, or drink espresso straight.

I think you cut it off early. The cone was just starting to collapse, but the color hadn't lightened very much. But it's impossible to tell by looking at a film. You have to let taste determine when the extraction has completed. Try cutting off the shot at different times, noting the shape and color of the cone when you turn of off the flow, then taste the espresso.

I generally find that when I've cut off the shot at the right time, the top of the crema is a nice cinnamon color with one or two small blotches of yellow that have dripped off the screen after I cut off the flow. But it really depends on the coffee. Some coffees may taste better cut off earlier, others may taste better cut off later.

I don't know your machine -- I heard two distinct motor sounds at the start of the shot. Were you using some sort of preinfusion? I counted about 34 seconds from the second motor sound to the end of the shot.

If you feel the drink is too strong and there's not enough volume, then grind coarser.

While you're learning, I urge you to weigh the shots instead of trying to eyeball the volume. It's a lot easier to hit the desired brew ratio that way. Once you get that right, you can stop weighing if you want to. You can note the volume and time, and use them to verify that you've got the right extraction when you cut off at the blonding point. The volume (i.e., crema height) can vary a little as the coffee ages, so watch out for that.

The dose and basket size depend on what works best for the coffee you're using. With most brewing methods, if you use more coffee you have to use more water to maintain the desired brew ratio, so a bigger dose gives you more brewed coffee in the pot or cup. The grind setting rarely has to be changed much over a pretty wide range of doses. But with the espresso brewing method, different dose sizes and baskets configurations can require significantly different grind settings to achieve the desired flow rate (brew time), and the grind setting greatly influences the flavor profile in the cup. In other words, espresso flavor is a lot more sensitive to variations in grind, the setting of which is determined by dose and basket. This tends to go hand in hand with how the coffee was roasted: some roasts work better with lower doses and finer grinds and some work better with higher doses and coarser grinds. So you really have to optimize the dose size for the coffee you are using.

For that reason, I would recommend that, if you want to stick with the VST system, that you get a 15g basket. That will give you pretty much the complete range from 14g-24g. Then try brewing the coffee you're using at 15g, 18g and 22g, using the same brew ratio. You can then try varying the brew ratio to see what strength works best for the coffee and your taste buds. Again, most roasters of high-quality coffee give you suggested brewing parameters, which are usually a good starting point.

I find the 22 the hardest to work with by a good bit actually. I know the thought process of a double is easier to brew then a single and why that is said but I don't think it follows that bigger is always better or easier to this case. I would work with the 18, which is in the middle of their offerings, first rather then going with a 15 or 22 right from the off. I brew 19G in the 18G basket, ground on a Barataza Vario so the basket is full but only to the point were there is very little loss when I prep the basket.

It does look like your cutting it a little too soon. The thing that has me scratching my head is the flow rate seems odd. It looks like it starts ok then nearly stalls before finishes about right. That might be intrinsic to that model IDK but i am wondering if its amount of clearance between the prepared puck and the screen. Before you knock the spent puck out is there a clear imprint of the screen on it? The cone also finishes off to one side pretty far which might be distribution, tamping a pf that is not seated firmly. I found that using the WDT but giving the basket little nutation while supporting most of the weight of the tamper works very well in my case. Make sure the puck is level in the basket before you stick it in the machine.

Peppersass wrote:I think you cut it off early. The cone was just starting to collapse, but the color hadn't lightened very much. But it's impossible to tell by looking at a film. You have to let taste determine when the extraction has completed. Try cutting off
the shot at different times, noting the shape and color of the cone when you turn of off the flow, then taste the espresso.

Damn. I thought it would be too late for sure.. I usually cut it off a few seconds before that. Good to know.

Peppersass wrote:I generally find that when I've cut off the shot at the right time, the top of the crema is a nice cinnamon color with one or two small blotches of yellow that have dripped off the screen after I cut off the flow. But it really depends on the coffee. Some coffees may taste better cut off earlier, others may taste better cut off later.

I don't know your machine -- I heard two distinct motor sounds at the start of the shot. Were you using some sort of preinfusion? I counted about 34 seconds from the second motor sound to the end of the shot.

Here is my procedure:

- Warm up for 30 minutes
- Grind, WDT, Tamp, Set aside
- Steam Milk
- Run brewhead for about 10 seconds, or until thermostat clicks off
- Turn steam switch on, set portafilter into machine
- Wait til thermostat clicks on, start brewing
- Wait 3 seconds, turn off steam switch
- Brew

So you were hearing me turn off the steam switch.

Thanks for the tips again, I'm going to pick up a 15g basket and start to experiment with all of this in mind.

jwoodyu wrote:I find the 22 the hardest to work with by a good bit actually. I know the thought process of a double is easier to brew then a single and why that is said but I don't think it follows that bigger is always better or easier to this case. I would work with the 18, which is in the middle of their offerings, first rather then going with a 15 or 22 right from the off. I brew 19G in the 18G basket, ground on a Barataza Vario so the basket is full but only to the point were there is very little loss when I prep the basket.

It does look like your cutting it a little too soon. The thing that has me scratching my head is the flow rate seems odd. It looks like it starts ok then nearly stalls before finishes about right. That might be intrinsic to that model IDK but i am wondering if its amount of clearance between the prepared puck and the screen. Before you knock the spent puck out is there a clear imprint of the screen on it? The cone also finishes off to one side pretty far which might be distribution, tamping a pf that is not seated firmly. I found that using the WDT but giving the basket little nutation while supporting most of the weight of the tamper works very well in my case. Make sure the puck is level in the basket before you stick it in the machine.

No, the puck does not touch the screen at all in this basket at this weight.

Anvan wrote:That said, coffee masses vary - "fluffy" versus "dense." VST writes that the volume fill trumps the weight: "The actual final weight should vary by the density of the coffee, not by over- or under-dosing the filter." VST recommends therefore that users dose loosely and level to rim height, then tamp. Usually, this will result in a fill height just below the basket's ridge line (in a ridged basket anyway) and about 2mm below the group screen.

I hope we'll get Andy Schecter's take on this, since Andy was both an early advocate of describing doses by weight (maybe the early advocate) and an adviser on the development of the VST.

I haven't seen a post from Andy since the infamous blowup following Scott Rao's thread on the VST refractometer and baskets. Definitely a shame if he's left us, but can hardly blame him for being turned off by the substance and tone of that discussion.

hi there,

i have a VST 15g filter and i figured it's best at 15.5-16g of dose.

machine: expobar office leva
grinder: eureka mignon

Volume shmolume.

It's intuitively obvious (but not necessarily right), that once tamped, the pre tamp volume is meaningless. If your grinds are still fluffy after tamping, "you're a better man than I am Gunga-Din!"

Weight -- or at least some metaphor which conveys weight accurately enough, like a grinder timer for instance -- is clearly where it's at in terms of conveying "how much" within the dosing context.

"How fine" is as or more important in terms of what you're going to get in the cup, but it seems to me it's a slightly different question. And while small differences in grind size will make a big difference in the cup, they aren't visually obvious post tamp.

Speaking of mass, I'm compelled to add that if you spill any of your dose as a result of the way you dose your basket, you might as well not measure until you've got your basket prepped. It's what's in the basket when it hits the gasket, not what came out of the grinder's chute. Try shaking your basket a little as you fill it, perhaps even tapping it against the fork to settle the grounds and thereby eliminate overflow and wildly inaccurate scaling.

It would be nice to hear from Andy.

BDL