New Vetrano Quick Mill, have tried several grinds and still only producing dark brown coffee with little or no crema? Some grinds were too fine and no coffee extracted, some too coarse and extracted coffee ran too quick. Perhaps I am tamping too hard? Just how much is 30 pounds. Seems like if I tamp too hard no coffee extraction? Any suggestions.

Stale coffee perhaps?

Note: Moderator merged this topic with related thread from same poster from prior day to keep the diagnoses in one place...


Trying to resolve poor espresso extractions, reading several topics about the brew head pressure, spraying water during the wiggle flush. I am not experiencing that. I am beginning to wonder if I have a defect machine. If I place fine ground coffee in the portafilter, it will not push water through the grounds and out the portafilter?
The gauge indicates 1.2, but the water just drizzles out with the portafilter off and lever activated, is this normal?

Thanks

tester2006 wrote:Trying to resolve poor espresso extractions, reading several topics about the brew head pressure, spraying water during the wiggle flush. I am not experiencing that. I am beginning to wonder if I have a defect machine. If I place fine ground coffee in the portafilter, it will not push water through the grounds and out the portafilter?
The gauge indicates 1.2, but the water just drizzles out with the portafilter off and lever activated, is this normal?

Thanks

There's a drill to go through when starting up an HX machine

1. Is it hot or is it false pressure? Open the steam valve, if the boiler pressure drops to zero, you have falsie pressure
2. Have you let the machine warm up for an hour -- this is not some toy, it's meant to run 24/7 or be turned on and off once a day on a timer
3. Run the pump, the water should come out boiling. Let it flush till it stops boiling, plus another 3 to 4 seconds. Now you have proper temperature
4. Do you have a commercial grinder. If not sell your machine, and buy a decent grinder -- the grinder comes first.
5. Pull shots. You're looking for about 1.5 to 2 ounces in 25 to 35 seconds of flow after the pressure ramps up for roughly 10 seconds (it's the other gauge for pump pressure) When the shot is flowing, it should read between 8 to 10 bar.
6, If your coffee is over 2 weeks old, don't expect crema.
7. Practice, practice practice
8. Read the content on this site carefully. Avoid posting questions until you are up to speed. Every question you post has 100s of people reading it, even if they don't answer, you've wasted several hours of people's time. Have both the courtesy and enlightened self interest to use your own time profitably by learning the ropes first rather than wasting every one else's time and learning nothing for it.

Ouch...

tester2006 wrote:Perhaps I am tamping too hard? Just how much is 30 pounds. Seems like if I tamp too hard no coffee extraction? Any suggestions.

First, I agree with Dan - get some fresh-roasted coffee. The roast date must be known and must be within two weeks.

Second, you can't tamp too hard (the last time I checked I was tamping at 50-60 pounds). Using 30 pounds is a starting place and you can measure that by getting out your old bathroom scale and using it as a tamping station. Look for the readout to be 30-40 pounds for starters.

Get the fresh coffee, it will make a world of difference.
Here's a CG thread that has bunches of good roaster references....
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/blends/205809

tester2006 wrote:If I place fine ground coffee in the portafilter, it will not push water through the grounds and out the portafilter?

Maybe the grind is too fine? Or you dosed too much coffee? You should also check that the brew pressure is correct. Insert a blind basket (no holes) into a portafilter, lock it in, then raise the brew lever. Does the lower gauge climb to ~9 bar? If not, consult your setup instructions on how to adjust it (note: Chris' Coffee technicians adjust the brew pressure before shipment, so it should not be wildly out of whack).

It can be helpful to pull several shots to "bracket" your grinder setting. That is, dosing the same amount each time, set the grinder to where it "chokes" the machine (no flow), then move successively more coarse until the flow is a "gusher". For a Mazzer Mini, this range is surprisingly small - around 3-4 notches on the collar. Your typical grinder adjustment, once it's in the ballpark, is only a few millimeters.

tester2006 wrote:The gauge indicates 1.2, but the water just drizzles out with the portafilter off and lever activated, is this normal?

Yes, that's normal. The Vetrano has a dual gauge:



The top gauge indicates the boiler pressure, which correlates to the boiler temperature; a reading of 1.2 bar is correct. The bottom gauge is the brew pressure gauge, which indicates how much water pressure is read at the grouphead. Its reading is only interesting while pulling a shot and will start at 0 and climb to 9 bar.

You're fortunate in that the Buyer's Guide to the Quick Mill Vetrano documents the setup and use of this espresso machine in detail. The resources that Jim eluded to are found in the How-Tos, e.g., his Home Barista's Guide to Espresso is the soup-to-nuts reference on getting the most from your espresso machine.

the machine is not producing the bad espresso.

you are using the machine to turn coffee into bad espresso.

What kind of grinder are you using?

It's true too about fresh roasted beans. They make a big difference in crema volume and taste.

I went through it seemed like a couple pounds of fresh roast trying to get the right grind range with my new Vetrano. It was mostly my fault: I trusted and adjusted the grinder according to the advice that came with the grinder and blamed my technique for a couple hours when the shots were pouring out blond. After zeroing in on a good setting the shots got a lot better.