RapidCoffee wrote:With all due respect, Ken: I believe you are equating comprehension with agreement.

Responses indicating that the initial post had been read and understood would be about the issues raised in said post if they were responsive. Instead they are about a whole bunch of other stuff such as basket geometry, hole patterns, pressurized baskets, what constitutes an "appropriate dose for XXX coffee vs YYY coffee," types of blends by geography, etc. etc. etc., that have no real bearing on the issues I raised.

Perhaps if you had actually read my post you would understand?

ken

How do I know which 'camp' I'm in?
I haven't got any real benchmark. And I can't compare dose from my 45mm La Peppina with something from a E61 type grouphead. Either way, I cram in anywhere from 12 to 15 grams in the double La Riviera basket with the bumps from Orphanespresso.

yakster wrote:I seem to remember posts early on before the thread drift set in that indicated to me that they'd read and understood your initial post. It's clear now that this thread has gone in a whole different direction, but the initial responses seemed on target even if they did not agree with your premise.

Since this thread is no longer about anything in particular, Chris, could you please share with us the breed of your cute white dog?

ken

<doomed attempt to get back on topic>

Ken, I find that a dose range of 14-16g is optimal for the 53mm Spaz double basket. This holds for a wide selection of coffees, both blends and SOs. So where does that leave me, in your binary espresso universe?

</doomed attempt to get back on topic>

Hey, I tried.

RapidCoffee wrote:<doomed attempt to get back on topic>

Ken, I find that a dose range of 14-16g is optimal for the 53mm Spaz double basket. This holds for a wide selection of coffees, both blends and SOs. So where does that leave me, in your binary espresso universe?

</doomed attempt to get back on topic>

Hey, I tried.

I would ask, John, do you find yourself dosing in this range most of the time, for whatever reason? Do you choose coffees based upon this "limitation," and do you avoid others for the same reason? Do you find that a lot of what you read here, that is written by people who dose much higher, is not applicable to your own espresso making behaviors?

ken

Ken Fox wrote:I would ask, John, do you find yourself dosing in this range most of the time, for whatever reason? Do you choose coffees based upon this "limitation," and do you avoid others for the same reason? Do you find that a lot of what you read here, that is written by people who dose much higher, is not applicable to your own espresso making behaviors?

Yes, I almost always dose in the 14-16g range. This is my personal preference for this particular basket and this particular machine, across a wide range of coffees, but it's not dogma. The Spaz double basket can take a higher dose (and of course a lower one), but I don't usually care as much for the results.

This has no bearing whatsoever on the coffee I choose. To be sure, I drink more blends than you, but I also indulge in SOs for a change of pace. Those are usually Ethiopians and Brazils. If a coffee tastes better at a lower dose (or a higher one), I adapt the dose rather than toss the coffee. However, a coffee that requires an extreme dose regimen for acceptable results - e.g., so acidic that it requires extraordinary downdosing - is unlikely to get reordered.

I'm not sure which posts you refer to in the last question. I've been gradually assimilating the accumulated knowledge and experience on this site for several years, and some ideas impact my routine more than others. Dose is a critical parameter in espresso, so posts on dosing tend to get my attention. I've become a dosing Nazi (to use Jim's phrase) since the Favorite Espresso Blends review last summer. No more dosing by volume, strictly by weight. Sigh.

Returning to your original question: dose is important, but it's all still espresso to me.

Not sure why making a specific classification here.

Some coffee taste better at high dose, some do at lower dose, depends on the blend, variety, acidity..
You can certainly pull a good shot of espresso for a specific coffee a 14g, but maybe a more flavorful cup, and better at 18g. Some coffee tends to have very low body at 14g and really nice one at 18-20...

I just think it depends on the coffee being use

big +1 on what John sais in his last two posts.
I do muuch more SO's then blends and I mostly dose in that rrange too. The specific dose depends on the beans and I do search for different tastes and for best spots for each coffee.
What's more, doing research with my La Peppina and Caravel baskets and La Spaz single I'm certain that the dosage depends both on basket and beans.
Also I had coffees that tasted better dosed 19g in La Spaziale triple basket then whatever in the double - that were some gourmet blends I got for coffee-indifferent friends. But on the other hand, I had great tasting triples made from SO's at 21g or at 19g too. And had a coffee that tasted like underdosed as trriple at 19g and great at 21g. But then those coffees I drank normaly as singles and doubles.