Hey Everyone, it's my first post!

I have my sister who lives in Seattle bring me a bag of Cafe Vivace Vita espresso beans every time she comes into town. I loved the stuff when I was there visiting her, and at home too, but I am and have always had trouble pulling shots with these beans. I started at the previous setting on my grinder and pulled a double shot with 18g of beans and I got 2.5 ounces (I know more than a proper shot) in about 22 seconds. Problem is a thats still a little fast and second it was about 3/4 crema. I tried going a notch finer on my grinder and the 2.5 oz shot glass was full in only 18 sec, but this time it was probably 7/8 crema. Going one notch further and I had a full 2.5 oz shot glass of crema in about 16 sec... Once the crema/foam subsides I'm only left with about an ounce to an ounce and a quarter of liquid, and it is making my drinks come out to weak (not enough espresso flavor, while the flavor is still good).

Are there any tips or tricks on how to pull a double shot of this espresso and yield somewhere between 2 and 2.25 oz of liquid after the crema dissipates?

Thanks,
Eli

Did you try going coarser? Also, you may want to weigh the shot rather than measure by volume.

EngineerEli wrote:Are there any tips or tricks on how to pull a double shot of this espresso and yield somewhere between 2 and 2.25 oz of liquid after the crema dissipates?

First: your grinder (Solis Maestro) is marginal for espresso. You seem to be having trouble getting a fine enough grind, and all your shots are pulling too fast (under 20sec). If you're serious about this hobby, consider relegating the Maestro to brewed coffee, and purchasing a grinder that is better suited for espresso.

Second: espresso extracts as 100% crema under 9 bars of pressure. The crema starts dissipating immediately, but you should still see 80-90% crema in the cup when the shot finishes. Vivace blends, at least in the past, have featured copious amounts of long-lasting crema (e.g., see my review of Dolce a few years ago).

Third (and perhaps most important): stop measuring your extractions by volume. Weigh the shot and use brew ratios instead. A shot that is 2 fluid ounces of liquid (not crema) weighs 60g, and is almost certainly a weak lungo. If you enjoy lungos, great. If not, 2oz of crema that dissipates to 1oz liquid is in the ballpark for a normale double. But again, get an inexpensive digital scale, and start using weight instead of volume.

Welcome to H-B (and apologies for not telling you what you wanted to hear ).

I realize my grinder is definite part of the problem... I have been researching grinders and after coming down to the Vario or a used Super Jolly, I think I have Decided on the Vario. Would that be suitable for my needs in your opinion?

So I tried weighing my shot this morning. The inconsistency of my grinder came into play again though. I tried tamping really hard and now I ran a 30 sec shot with 2 oz total volume liquid and crema, I know too long. (with the same 18 g of beans) I put the shot on the scale and after subtracting the tare weight it weighed 1.313 oz. Should the weight of the finished shot be between 1.5 and 2 oz as I have read before? I would think if I pulled the same shot again and was to let the shot glass fill to 2.5 oz volumetric, I should fall into the 1.5-2 oz weight window...Agree?

The Vario should be a far better grinder for espresso than the Maestro.

Brew ratios: don't make life hard on yourself. Be consistent, and use grams for both coffee and liquid weight. Is your target brew ratio 50%? Adjust the grind so that your 18g coffee dose produces 36g espresso in 25-30 seconds. Is it 67%? Adjust the grind so that your 18g coffee dose produces 27g espresso in 25-30 seconds. Is it a ristretto (brew ratio 100%)? Aim for 18g espresso in 30 seconds. That should get you in the ballpark.

FWIW, Vivace pulls their shots incredibly ristretto in store, I'm talking <1oz including crema from probably 18-20 grams of coffee in 24-30 seconds. The machines are also run at an unusually high temperature, that is, David Schomer's noted 203.5°F, when measured at the group.

While I used to work there (less than a year ago), nothing is weighed (everything is by sight and touch), so I can't be of much help with exact doses or brew ratios.

That is also not to say that this coffee cannot potentially taste as good (or better) with other very different parameters.

Well I came upon a great deal on the Vario (new one the 886) so it is on order!

I do like your discussion about brew ratios. But what should I actually be doing for my morning drink a latte with about 8 ounces of cold milk, stretched to about 10 ounces. So if I want to keep my milk part of the drink the same and if I go to Starbucks and like the way my drinks taste with a double shot in a tall what should I be what kind of drink should I be pulling. Up till now I always assumed that was about 2 fluid ounces but what should the weight be I am looking for. I know the direct conversion of 2 oz would be about 57 g but I know there is crema so it is way less than that. Should I be shooting for 35g? 40g? 45g? I generally start with an 18 g dose of ground coffee, at which point the portafilter in my Classic is pretty much full, so those percentages would get me to 51%, 45%, and 40% respectfully.

EngineerEli wrote:Should I be shooting for 35g? 40g? 45g? I generally start with an 18 g dose of ground coffee, at which point the portafilter in my Classic is pretty much full, so those percentages would get me to 51%, 45%, and 40% respectfully.

A common starting brew ratio for espresso blends is ~67%, or 2:3 dry:wet.
So for example starting with an 18 gram dry dose, you would pull 27 grams of liquid in probably 25-30 seconds.
A brew ratio lower than 50% starts to give the impression less of espresso and more of very strong coffee.
Conversely, a shot with a brew ratio greater than 100% tends to be so concentrated as to be undrinkable.
There are always exceptions, and there is always room for personal preference.

Just my 2¢

EngineerEli wrote:But what should I actually be doing for my morning drink a latte with about 8 ounces of cold milk, stretched to about 10 ounces. So if I want to keep my milk part of the drink the same and if I go to Starbucks and like the way my drinks taste with a double shot in a tall what should I be what kind of drink should I be pulling.

Honestly, it doesn't really matter. That much milk will drown out any subtle nuances in the coffee.

EngineerEli wrote:I know the direct conversion of 2 oz would be about 57 g...

Actually, it's about 59 grams. 1 fl oz (US) is about 30 ml (30g for water or espresso).

Congrats on your new grinder.

EngineerEli wrote:But what should I actually be doing for my morning drink a latte with about 8 ounces of cold milk, stretched to about 10 ounces.

for lattes, i find that 25-30g of brewed espresso usually matches well with 5 oz milk or a little less (volume measured cold).