I find myself awake all night if I drink any espresso after work, so the only chance I get to test is while making my morning drink. This morning I went one step more coarse, with 18g of coffee, and ran the shot for 25 sec. It yielded a 55g shot (~2.5 oz volume) With all the milk it didn't taste bad, but I think I would rather be some where in between this and the shot I pulled yesterday that was 30 sec yielding 37g for my morning drink. Tomorrow I think I will go back one step finer and try to lighten up a little on my tamp and see if I cant get something like 40-45g in under 30 sec.

BTW, this is so much easier to dial things in dealing with shot weight instead of volume. especially with the crema dissipating and the volume chaining all the time and the between different coffees.

The Vario is still probably a week or so out, but I can't wait to bring it home. Any one have any suggestions of things I should tend to right off the bat, or threads that discuss this. Any adjustment, break in, or cleaning... It will be nice to easily adjust between the two shots above without having to play around with light tamps or messing with the dose.

This morning's shot was again 18g of Vivace Vita, one step finer than the previous day, but with a light tamp. I ended up with a 43g (~2.5 oz volumetric) shot in 23 sec. I think I'll keep the shot the same for tomorrow, tamp a hair harder and maybe cut off the shot a bit earlier (~40g, 0.45 ratio), otherwise I think I'm pretty happy with it!

Not really, but a part of me is saying well if you got this pretty darn decent shot with your cheap grinder, why did you have to go blow over $400 on a 'better' one??? (Baratza Vario) Please help talk me out of thinking this way...

First, I dont want to discount the suggested method of weighing the shots as opposed to measuring by volume. Its a much better way of doing things.

I personally dont use either method. I never paid attention to volume past "thats way too much" or "thats way too little". As long as it was roughly in the ballpark, I was good.

Today, IF im going to measure the shot in any capacity, Ill weigh it, but like I said, I dont measure the shots. I do however weigh out the ground coffee going into the portafilter, always.

Vivace Vita, even moreso than Dolce IIRC, is a crema monster. Not only do the blends produce copious amounts, the crema is different than many other blends.. its got a thick, lumpy texture to it. Ive noticed this before on other blends, and I am pretty sure it is due to the monsooned coffee present in the blend.


Im a fan of Dolce, and Vita is good too, but definitely meant for milk. The only advice I can lend other than what has been said, is that as for temperature, if you have a way of controlling the temp, that would be a big help. My experience with Vivace's coffee has been that, it needs to be as close to that suggested 203.5 as you can get it. MY machine is able to adjust in 1F increments, and 203 and 204 both work nicely. My personal opinion on these blends, is if you can get the temperature right, you can be more flexible with how slow you make the pour/how much volume you end up with. But if the temp is off, ie: too cold, then really nothing you do to adjust the pour/volume/extracted weight is going to produce drinkable results.


Forgive my ignorance to the correlation of weighted measurements and volume measurements, but I think based on what your saying you're getting, you're pulling the shots in the more "normale" range of extraction. As was mentioned, the Vivace blends are pulled as tight ristretti in cafe, and my personal experience has been the same.

A quick way to try out pulling the shots "tighter", would be to continue to use 18grams, but tighten the grind setting up a bit. If you want to stick to weighing the shots, then thats fine(and you'll be better for it), but as a rough guide, as go more into a ristretto extraction, you will get more weight and less volume.

Before weighing the extraction became the norm, I would have said something along the lines of, "Use 18grams, and shoot for 1.5-.175oz in 40 seconds". That volume is not the volume after 2 minutes and the crema settles, that the volume you turn off the machine at.(IF you measure by volume, thats how you do it. TOTAL volume, crema and all, the moment you turn off the machine).


This is a whole lot of words to say, I think you're on the right track, keep doing what your doing, pay attention to the temperature, make the grind a little finer, and you should be there. Weighing is far more accurate than watching the volume, so if you like doing it, continue doing it. Oh, and get the Vario, you'll thank yourself profoundly once you get it dialed in and see the difference. If it makes you feel better, EVERYONE needs to be borderline harrassed into buying their first decent grinder. NO ONE needs to be cajoled into buying their second and third high end titan conical.

Thanks for the helpful response JmanEspresso!

At this point I have been able to replicate the same shot a few times I am still using 18 gr of coffee, with a firm tamp, and a 26 sec extraction to yield 37g of coffee (~2 1/4 oz volume as pump is shut off). I may be allowing it to blond a hair too much but I think it tastes really good! (With milk at least) I understanding what you are saying about going finer to get a rosetto, but I don't feel comfortable pushing my Maestro Plus any finer without fear of it self destructing, or at least having frequent issues with the beans bridging over the burrs, which it already does sometimes.

I got confirmation that my Vario, with the cool new metal portafilter holder, will be getting delivered Friday! Can't wait to dial it in. Anything I should worry about right off the bat, other than maybe grinding a bit of junk beans through it first? BTW, amazon has them for 420 shipped, until they realize there mistake and adjust the price...

Interestingly enough, I tried running the shot for 27 seconds today, just ~1 sec longer, and ended up with 39g of coffee instead of the previous 37g, but I noticed the resulting latte tasting noticeably worse. I'm not good at identifying the specific flavors or lack there of, but it was definitely tastier with the shorter extraction. I think 25-26 sec at my current grind is going to be my go to double shot. (18g beans/37g coffee = 49% ratio = GOOD)

As a side note: I think a lot of the initial crema issues were coming from the fact that I was pulling shots by volume and not weight. I would definite suggest to all to weight there shots. Secondly I think I was having issues with channeling in the beginning. I have since started doing the WDT method of stirring the ground coffee in the portafilter with a paper clip before tamping, and also turned down the OPV (brew pressure) on my Gaggia Classic Espresso Machine to 9 bar, which was way too high from the factory.(So high it wasn't even opening, my pump would just stall out)

I've only been doing this for a few months but Vita and Dolce are two of my favorite coffees. I'm on my 4th bag. I've been experimenting a lot so I'll share the results of my misadventures. N.B. I like to sip the shot before adding 4 oz milk for a short latte. I like bittersweet chocolate and nutty flavors. Sour fruit flavors are not my thing.

For my BDB 202F is right. Any lower and I get old gym sock flavors. Higher gives me more bitterness. Pressure is 9 bar.

For consistency, I weigh everything and use WDT. With this coffee and the Vario, a small change can make a big difference in output. Before I did this, I wasted a lot of coffee.

I can't get rid of the copious stiff crema either. After the shot I'll swirl the cup or add 1 oz of milk and stir it to reduce the foam.

I like it as ristretto. Around 60-80% brew ratio seems good to me. 18-22 g dose. I find with Vivace the "magic formula" seems to be bigger dose, grind fine and pull longer. For me it's 40s total time w/ 7s pre-infusion (60% pressure). From the time I hit the button to the first drop is around 10-14s. If I mess up I go longer time, so I either end up with a 50-60s ristretto or 35s lungo. My personal taste, going long is better than cutting short. YMMV.

The Vario is great for single dosing. Retention is very low (0.5 g). It will save you lot of beans because when you make changes to the setting you have to either run through 10-20g, or run it empty. Also, watch the setting levers. On my machine they would drift coarser mid grind. Needed to get the shim kit from Baratza (free). Sometimes static will cause the grinds to spray outside the PF. 1-2 drops of water on the beans in the hopper fixes that (RDT).

BTW if you (or anybody) can figure out how to pour latte art using Vivace and skim milk, let me know. I'm having a Dickens of a time with it.

SmackMonkey wrote:I've only been doing this for a few months but Vita and Dolce are two of my favorite coffees. I'm on my 4th bag. I've been experimenting a lot so I'll share the results of my misadventures. N.B. I like to sip the shot before adding 4 oz milk for a short latte. I like bittersweet chocolate and nutty flavors. Sour fruit flavors are not my thing.

Couldn't agree more! I finished my bag of Vita (haven't tried Dolce) and now I'm back to some Intelligentsia Black Cat. Definitely had some more fruit flavors to it at first, (accidentally pulled a 50g shot from 18g of beans) but this morning I tried pulling a shorter double (ended up being 34g) and most of that fruit was gone, back to coco/caramel flavor! I may still try to get it up more to the 36-38g range

After a lot of back and forth with Amazon, and two 885 Varios they sent me saying they were going to be 886's I'm pretty sure an actual 886 is being delivered tomorrow, cant wait to actually try it out. My only concern is still am i going to notice a difference. My old Maestro Plus is making some pretty darn tasty espresso already. I'll report after I get it dialed in!

I have a Maestro Plus, pulled it apart, tried to adjust the burrs set....

Long story short, it is not capable of pulling an acceptable shot of espresso.
I use it for my french press as it does ok at making somewhat nice boulders, not fine grinds. Not even at the finest setting on the burrs ( take it apart ) then adjust the dial where it is SCREAMING!

I am certain as the others have contested to the new vario should solve the issue.