Okey, so, a thing that has been nagging me a bit.

We are talking about scientifically measuring all variables of espresso making to the point where you have three stops through your 0.1g scale to make sure you have a perfect extraction of your espresso, most of all for 100% consistency.

So why the heck are you first seen as a good enough barista when you can feel when your steamed milk reaches 67*C with the palm of your hand through a steel pitcher!?!?

alyce wrote:So why the heck are you first seen as a good enough barista when you can feel when your steamed milk reaches 67*C with the palm of your hand through a steel pitcher!?!?

I don't hold it so that I can feel if it is 67*C, I do it so that I can drink the bloody thing! Nothing pisses me off more than getting a cappuccino that is too hot to drink.

I don't think there is as much of a need for digital accuracy with the final temp on milk, am I right? I've just been using the "stop when it's too hot to touch", which has been producing great results so far (and is a lot easier to do than watching and cleaning a thermometer each time).

Certain tasks have a narrow band for great results, others have a lot of wiggle room.

But the "too hot to touch"-method would vary for each and every person, no? Some have a much bigger tolerance for heat on your fingers/palm than others, so for some the cap would be too cold, for some perfect. Why not find the temp where the milk is at its sweetest yet warm enough to be comfortable but cool enough to drink right away, and deliver that temperature time after time?

On the other hand, I do see the wiggle room argument, there isn't as much difference between a 55 degree milk and 65 degree milk, compared to a 20-sec shot and a 30 sec shot with the same variables.

Just thought I'd throw it out there

Some place use a thermometer, some don't. It's not as much critical, but it's surely a good addition as you can lose some sensibility in the long term...

But with practice it's easy to know if your milk is in the 130F, 140F and 150F

Milk is less critical. Steam some milk to 140, 150, 160. Let them cool to room temperature then drink them. Can you pick out which was which? There is a minimum temperature where the sugars and proteins in the milk break down and the complex sugars become simple sugars which is why steamed milk tastes sweeter than non steamed. If you get an ice-cream recipe they will state that the milk needs scalded then cooled, that is why. The milk temp is more personal preference, how hot do you like it.

Use a thermometer and hold the pitcher. Pay attention to the temp and the touch. After a few hundred pitchers, you will just know when it is right. If you pay close attention you can also use sound. There is a distinct change in the pitch as the milk warms. At work I just steam in a Styrofoam cup and know when it is ready based on the pitch.

I think there is a very big difference between 140 and 160 and I think the preparation of milk is critical to a good drink (it makes up at least half the drink). I am one of those who cannot accurately measure the temperature with my hand so I always use a thermometer. I struggle to find an argument against using one...I guess it saves about 5 seconds not to. I try to heat the milk to between 145 and 150 with proper texture. When done incorrectly, it can ruin what was a great shot so I think it is a critical step and skill.; one that is far too often treated as an afterthought.

The thread below has some good commentary on the subject:

Ideal serving temperature for steamed milk

Too hot on my hand is too cold to serve

It's not just the final temperature. Depending on the machine, the milk and the beverage I may plunge at 80°, 85° or 90°F

I used to use a thermometer, but found that it got in the way when I was trying to get the milk to whirlpool. Also, most thermometers have some temperature lag, so the temp you're reading may not be accurate. If you use a cheap thermometer to steam to 160, you may actually be steaming the milk to 170 or more, which is going to ruin the milk's flavor.

Going by feel seems to work better for me. Your mileage may vary though.

In my tasting experience, milk temperature isn't a "yeah, whatever"-thing. End the steaming too cool and it will have a taste too much similar to drinking cold milk, which doesn't balance too good with espresso. Steam too much (going much above 70 degrees C) and you will get a burnt taste like porridge and lose sweetness.

It's of course okay if you play by a "made with love, not work"-mindset. But I cannot grasp how so many go to extreme measures to achieve complete consistency in espresso, to make the optimal shot and to be able to reproduce that time after time. And yet when it comes to milk its a yeah-yeah matter. As stated, in a cap, you have two thirds (roughly, often more) milk to about one third espresso. You could also argue with the "well yeah, but I like how it tastes my way". Which has been a hot topic discussing coffee brewing, especially with pour over. The members here doesn't seem like the "oh well, it tastes good, I'm gonna leave it at that"-type

Also, one thing is the home barista, another is professional baristas, both in cafés and also the WBC. We are measuring doses, time our shots, long for technology in grinders that will deliver accurate doses down to 0.1 grams and espresso machines with built in scales in the drip tray, but a thermometer? A good barista should be able to feel with great accuracy the perfect milk temp with his palm, day after day? I still think something about that is iffy.