Alright guys, and gals, Let me know what you think. I am SO sorry the first video took 5mins I would have trimmed the video but Im not very familiar with video editors like some members are. If you want to jump straight to the shot extraction (a different one) then just watch video 2. Any advice or comments would be great. I could have recorded in higher resolution and next time I will. Im in the process of considering an upgrade and thought I would just throw this out there and let people comment

Baratza Virtuoso grinder
Saeco Sirena

(Seems like I have a tendency of creating the spiraling twins : )

Thanks

(can you hear the train at 3mins, Ahh I love the mornings )







Not my best extraction but Im still open to comments and suggestions for improvements. I find it odd that the start of the shot, before anything makes it to the cup, appears relatively even and then its downhill from there. What could be the culprit, or is it all me ? Also at what time would you say the shot is "blonding"


Thanks again

you're joking, right

How fresh is that coffee?
No scale? How much coffee ±0.2g?
WDT with a Knife?
Tapping the PF with a knife?
Tamp is WAY off vertical and WAY too heavy
Flush routine isn't
Portafilter loaded way too long before pull

cafeIKE wrote:you're joking, right

Ouch, I probably deserve it ... at least its somewhat constructive and not completely derogatory.

cafeIKE wrote:How fresh is that coffee?

Picked it up from a local roaster on Saturday and they guarantee, whatever that's worth, nothing in the store is less than 7 days old.

cafeIKE wrote: No scale? How much coffee ±0.2g?

Its a volumetric form of measurement; quiet common if I am not mistaken

cafeIKE wrote:WDT with a Knife?

I thought the idea was to break up clumps and air pockets...maybe not the best tool but seems to do the job

cafeIKE wrote:Tapping the PF with a knife?

This is called "the Chicago chop"

cafeIKE wrote: Tamp is WAY off vertical and WAY too heavy

I have measured the force I put into my tamp and its close to 30lbs...Im not the biggest/strongest person so it may look like more force than it actually is. Is the tamp really that far off vertical? I thought it was somewhat passable considering the initial start of the pump bled through decent.

cafeIKE wrote: Flush routine isn't

Youre right it didnt get off witout a hitch but i just recently started switching to steam and back to brew so I dont have the timing down pat. Plus the temp in the boiler varies, in turn the amount of water needing to be released before the boiler turns on is varied. This new step did eliminate any sourness I experienced.

cafeIKE wrote:Portafilter loaded way too long before pull

this was strictly because of filming

I am a novice with entry level equipment....which is why I am seeking advice and tossing up a video for just that purpose....that was kinda painful; may I have another

Hey it's not a total disaster! probably 2-3 small changes will go a long ways.

First thing I would work on is your dosing distribution. You need some better way to evenly distribute the coffee in the basket after pouring it in. Think about consistent density at the bottom of the puck, not just leveling the top. You could stir with something finer, do a leveling "thump", or something else. What I do is put an empty single basket over the basket I've dosed into, then do a leveling thump to "settle" the grounds, then WDT, then tamp.

As noted, your tamping is definitely not level. This will make a big difference! Think about holding the tamper like a doorknob, with your fore-arm vertical, and watch the edges of the tamper relative to the basket/PF as you tamp to make sure everythings even.

Your shot looks under extracted to me. It could be the coffee.... but I would try 1 click finer on your grinder, or updosing 1-2g. It could be blonding early just because the water is finding the easy way around the coffee bed (likely around the low side created by uneven tamping)

I am not sure I would worry about the flush routine too much, unless you know the temperature profile of your machine.

To follow up on Ian's comments in a hopefully more constructive way:

c1raider wrote:Picked it up from a local roaster on Saturday and they guarantee, whatever that's worth, nothing in the store is less than 7 days old.

This is no guarantee of much: I've heard that many times from people selling very poorly roasted, probably much-older-than-they-claim coffee that is useless and disgusting. I'm sure it's a little expensive, but IMO you owe it to yourself to get some really primo stuff. I would start by reading this and picking one to order and work with. The worst thing you can do as a newbie is think you should learn on [possibly cheap] local coffee. It may be good or bad, but if it's bad, you'll struggle to know if it's you or the coffee.

c1raider wrote:Its a volumetric form of measurement; quiet common if I am not mistaken

We eschew volumetric measurements for the most part. They're pretty inconsistent when you're working with espresso. It's best to weigh both your dose and your brew (see here).

c1raider wrote:I thought the idea was to break up clumps and air pockets...maybe not the best tool but seems to do the job

This isn't entirely true. With the WDT you are looking not just to break clumps but also to produce an even distribution in the basket. A knife may do the former, but it's very counterproductive at the latter. You need to get a much smaller tool (like a dissecting needle) that can break clumps without pushing coffee around so much.

c1raider wrote:This is called "the Chicago chop"

I think the chicago chop is much simpler and doesn't involve tapping on the basket. You don't need to do this, just sweep across to level, NSEW sweep is probably better than a single chop. But again, no need to tap.

c1raider wrote:I have measured the force I put into my tamp and its close to 30lbs...Im not the biggest/strongest person so it may look like more force than it actually is. Is the tamp really that far off vertical? I thought it was somewhat passable considering the initial start of the pump bled through decent.

Ian is big on lighter tamps. I don't think that you need to tamp lighter, you just need to tamp consistently. So his criticism, IMO, is patently invalid. However, you do need to get a level tamp; this is very important. I suggest putting your fingers around the edge of the tamper piston as you set the tamper in the basket. make sure it's sitting level in the basket using your fingers prior to tamping. This should help you out a good bit.

Regarding your shot in general, it looks to me like your shots do not bead evenly and that the center of the basket is slow to start. I think you likely have too much coffee in the center of your basket and need to press it out to the edges better prior to tamping. A better WDT tool and better NSEW or other levelling technique should solve this problem. I think your distribution/tamp need just a bit of work before you can start pulling more even shots, then you can get into more meaningful grind/dose adjustments and temperature management, where your tastebuds, rather than your video camera, will be your guide.

There are two ways to view the video, and I apologize in advance for the use of these words because I know they are a poor choice of words under the circumstances. The first is "amateurishly," which is once sense is like saying, "Cool, man, how'd it taste?" The is essentially like saying as long as you like the way it tastes (and are content with it "as is") then it's cool. The other way is "critically," as in attempting to offer constructive technique(s) for improvement. It is in this light that I offer the following comments and questions:

1) There is nothing wrong with keeping your beans in an airtight container and "grinding by dose." However, what was your dose? How much did it weigh? And without knowing this, how can you expect to be consistent?

2) Ditch the knife. Not only is it like using a battle axe when a scalpel is needed, but you're also (IMHO) spending waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy toooooooooooooo muuuuuuccccchhhhhhhhh time playing with the knife.

3) The tamper is "WAY off vertical" (Ian is right). As for "too heavy," while it's true Ian is a fan of very light tamping, and many of us are not -- this is but one example of there being more than one way to produce great espresso; BOTH ways work -- the spinning thing has to go.

4) Can you explain your flush routine? It certainly makes absolutely no sense to me -- from the very beginning of the video to the on/off/on/of/on/off at roughly three minutes into the video. I don't get it.

5) Why do you lock the portafilter into place so long before you pull your shot? It was locked in place over a minute before you began the shot; some of that time you were adjusting the camera, but some of the time you were doing your "normal" routine" -- why so early? (And what's with pulling the shot into a wet glass?)

6) What is that sound at 4:16 into the video? It lasts for approx. 12 seconds. It's not the pump; that doesn't start until 4:29.

7) The shot itself seems to blonde way too early and continues way too long . . .

Most important, of course, is the taste, and that is something we cannot tell from a video. But to me? It looks like a sink shot.

Sorry.

Cheers,
Jason

Excellent, some reviews I can use to improve my technique! Thanks guys!

In reverse order

zin1953 wrote:There are two ways to view the video, and I apologize in advance for the use of these words because I know they are a poor choice of words under the circumstances. The first is "amateurishly," which is once sense is like saying, "Cool, man, how'd it taste?" The is essentially like saying as long as you like the way it tastes (and are content with it "as is") then it's cool. The other way is "critically," as in attempting to offer constructive technique(s) for improvement. It is in this light that I offer the following comments and questions:

Excellent!

zin1953 wrote:spending waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy toooooooooooooo muuuuuuccccchhhhhhhhh time playing with the knife.

Made me laugh and entirely true!

zin1953 wrote:the spinning thing has to go.

for some reason the spinning seemed to cut down on splattering but hopefully with other adjustments I wont need to spin

zin1953 wrote:4) Can you explain your flush routine? It certainly makes absolutely no sense to me -- from the very beginning of the video to the on/off/on/of/on/off at roughly three minutes into the video. I don't get it.

zin1953 wrote:6) What is that sound at 4:16 into the video? It lasts for approx. 12 seconds. It's not the pump; that doesn't start until 4:29.

Well the on/off/on/off was not intentional. Basically I am trying to turn the boiler on to prepare for a shot. then once its "ready" I switch it over to steam which heats it a little more (which is the sound at 4:16, too much pressure and so there is a very minimal release at the head. I call it preinfussion )

zin1953 wrote:5) Why do you lock the portafilter into place so long before you pull your shot? It was locked in place over a minute before you began the shot; some of that time you were adjusting hte camera, but some of the time you were doing your "normal" routine" -- why so early? (And what's with pulling the shot into a wet glass?)

this was simply an issue with timing, between filming and wanting to get the water as hot as my machine can make it by playing with the previously described method I missed the optimal time to pull the shot and so I had to repeat the above steps. I dont have a cup heater so I warm it with liquid maybe not the prettiest way to warm your cup, but it works...and I dont know what you mean by

zin1953 wrote:why so early?

zin1953 wrote:The shot itself seems to blonde way too early

I completely agree but dont know why and dont know how to remedy it..?

Thanks Jason as always your post are greatly appreciated!

Shadowfax

shadowfax wrote:This is no guarantee of much: I've heard that many times from people selling very poorly roasted, probably much-older-than-they-claim coffee that is useless and disgusting. I'm sure it's a little expensive, but IMO you owe it to yourself to get some really primo stuff. I would start by reading this and picking one to order and work with. The worst thing you can do as a newbie is think you should learn on [possibly cheap] local coffee. It may be good or bad, but if it's bad, you'll struggle to know if it's you or the coffee.

I completely agree, I had been buying locally because it was easier and, even though I still need improvement, my shots were so bad before that I hated the idea of buying great coffee when I was just going to through half of it out anyways.

shadowfax wrote:We eschew volumetric measurements for the most part. They're pretty inconsistent when you're working with espresso. It's best to weigh both your dose and your cup (see here).

My scale should be here tomorrow, Im hoping 1gram incremental scale is effective enough; what do you think?

shadowfax wrote:This isn't entirely true. With the WDT you are looking not just to break clumps but also to produce an even distribution in the basket. A knife may do the former, but it's very counterproductive at the latter. You need to get a much smaller tool (like a dissecting needle) that can break clumps without pushing coffee around so much.

this is actually kinda funny, I have been pushing off buying a dissecting needle because I hate the idea of spending $8 for shipping on a piece that is worth 25cents. I have tried finding it around town; I'll bite the bullet and order today though. (thanks for the motivation)

shadowfax wrote:I suggest putting your fingers around the edge of the tamper piston as you set the tamper in the basket. make sure it's sitting level in the basket using your fingers prior to tamping. This should help you out a good bit.

Regarding your shot in general, it looks to me like your shots do not bead evenly and that the center of the basket is slow to start. I think you likely have too much coffee in the center of your basket and need to press it out to the edges better prior to tamping. A better WDT tool and better NSEW or other levelling technique should solve this problem. I think your distribution/tamp need just a bit of work before you can start pulling more even shots, then you can get into more meaningful grind/dose adjustments and temperature management, where your tastebuds, rather than your video camera, will be your guide

Roger that and thank you for your time ShadowFax I will certainly implement your suggestions.

F.M Thank you for saving me from Ian's wrath

F.M. wrote:First thing I would work on is your dosing distribution. You need some better way to evenly distribute the coffee in the basket after pouring it in. Think about consistent density at the bottom of the puck, not just leveling the top. You could stir with something finer, do a leveling "thump", or something else. What I do is put an empty single basket over the basket I've dosed into, then do a leveling thump to "settle" the grounds, then WDT, then tamp.

have to admit, Im kinda curious what your method looks like...on film . I will take your advice.

F.M. wrote:Think about holding the tamper like a doorknob, with your fore-arm vertical, and watch the edges of the tamper relative to the basket/PF as you tamp to make sure everythings even.

hmmmmm

F.M. wrote:Your shot looks under extracted to me. It could be the coffee.... but I would try 1 click finer on your grinder, or updosing 1-2g. It could be blonding early just because the water is finding the easy way around the coffee bed (likely around the low side created by uneven tamping)

I agree with you it does look underextracted but if I go any finer it chokes my machine. my second video extraction is 35 seconds or so. I will adjust my tamping and hope that is it

Thank You all very much for your time I truly appreciate it

For WDT, 4 #9 sewing machine needles for a couple of dollars. Lifetime supply.

Remove the funnel BEFORE WDT, otherwise you have a void around the top of the puck at the basket edge.

1g scale AIN'T gonna cut it. A 1g digital scale is repeatable to ±2grams [±1g PLUS ±1 count].
Probably worse at low end of measurement range.

How long is the machine ON before first shot? 30 minutes at least please, PF locked in. Until everything before PF lock to brew is 'under the fingers' and consistent shots are the norm, pass on bumping the temperature. [ If you need to bump the steam to raise the temperature, run water out of the group until the ready light is off, stop the flow, hit the steam for X seconds, kill the steam, lock in PF and brew. This is likely to be very imprecise. ]

Alot of good comments already....

Have you checked out Coffee Emergency?
Jason Anderson does very good work and he's in Omaha Lincoln
http://www.coffeeemergency.com/


Also, if you want some dissecting needles for under $10 delivered then shoot me a message to JonR10@yahoo.com . I have some extras and will send you a couple for the cost of packing and shipping (maybe $2 total?).

cafeIKE wrote:Remove the funnel BEFORE WDT, otherwise you have a void around the top of the puck at the basket edge.

This is covered in the original instruction...but I WDT with the funnel in place for cleanliness. And because I tend to updose and tamp lower than the gap you mention, my method to level and tamp after removing the funnel produces good extractions and no worries (and much reduced messiness).

I don't need to use WDT with a Robur grinder but I still like to because it is so clean and SO consistent.