jmcdougal wrote: how you handle the dumping the puck from the hot basket without being able to knock it out into a knockbox.

To put it simply, technique. It's not difficult to keep the basket in the PF while knocking out the puck.

Cleaning the screen with a flush during the session you are working in is more than adequate. You just don't want to leave the screen dirty for many hours, days, whatever, and expect it to say clean.

jmcdougal wrote:I haven't tried Kebado for espresso, and I haven't tried the Monkey blend since I got the Andreja. I've been hitting the roasts FC+ or FC++ as near as I can tell. I was looking at Monkey the other day and the description says it's optimized for lever machines, so I was unsure about getting more. I've been meaning to try some of the other SO beans, so I'll do that too.

yes, the blends you tried and the others listed usually give me at least a nice sweet cup, though your mileage may vary. You have to roast lighter. On the Behmor, I roast in P2, increase the time to maximum after the roast has started, let it go until the temperature probe says its right or at most just a snap or two into second crack. Then after 2-3 minutes of cooling, open the oven door a crack to get it to cool more rapidly (watch the chaff!) Try that; I think it will sweeten your cup.

jmcdougal wrote:I'll try dropping the dose - probably have to use some type of curved surface for leveling. Right now after fluffing with the WDT I'm leveling right at the rim. I do have a scale, but it only weighs in even grams - but it does go high enough so that I can tare the PF and know how much coffee I actually ended up with. Early on, I was weighing 14 grams into the PF but leveling seemed to be a problem because the coffee didn't reach the PF rim uniformly.

If you read my posts and other posts on dosing below the rim, you can use a lid from a jar about 4-5 inches in diameter (like a pickle jar) and it works really well if you use the technique properly. I get very uniform extractions from it; it eliminates donut hole issues as well.

jmcdougal wrote:Thanks for your advice. I've heard of the "taking the spring out of the PF" approach, but wonder how you handle the dumping the puck from the hot basket without being able to knock it out into a knockbox. I am under the impression that dumping the spent puck and flushing quickly keeps oils and gunk from building up on the screen. Do you use a hot pad to handle the basket or just take the basket out to cool off, and put the PF back in the brewgroup? If you want to do another shot right away, do you use another basket? Sorry about all the questions but inquiring minds want to know!
Mac

I have a few baskets lined up. Actually, I usually grind and load up two or three baskets and then pull them all in a row. Usually, the first shot is kind of harsh because the system isn't warmed up perfectly, but the next few shots are great!

I take the basket out of the portafilter and set it on the drip tray. After a minute it is cool enough for me to hold and knock out by hand. If it is still too hot to touch just grab it with a doubled over paper towel; then you can use the paper towel to sweep out the residual grinds in the basket after you have knocked it out and you are good to go again!

Honestly, fix the brew temp and brew pressure and roast issues first.
The whole "remove the clip" from the portaiflter; buy many baskets" thing is something to think about once you address the major issues if at all.

I wouldn't define espresso as a "sweet" drink anyway nor do I think that it should taste sweet. I prefer it to taste "complex". I found an interesting thread in HB about this matter - http://www.home-barista.com/knockbox/obsession-with-sweet-espresso-dogma-in-making-t1306.html.
I agree with Abe Carmeli's post unless you take the word "sweet" differently from its usual sense.

I would say that "sweet" is still a very good descriptor for good espresso. To me it is analogous to describing food as "seasoned." Of course, it does not elaborate on the complexity or the details of flavor, but it gives everyone a rough idea of where things are.

To me, a "sweet" espresso is not saccharine, but is well balanced between sourness and bitterness, neither grassy nor burnt, with all defects minimal, allowing the coffee's natural flavors of origin to shine through. Often the espresso will have the soft mouth-feel of sweet drinks, even though it may not be sugary sweet at all.

I tend to think of it more in the context of: "Ah, espresso! How sweet it is!"

drdna wrote:To me, a "sweet" espresso is not saccharine, but is well balanced between sourness and bitterness, neither grassy nor burnt"

Well Drdna, "sweet" in the sense of "well balanced" is ok for me. It's the word "sweet" that was puzzling me because I associate it with sugar - which espresso is not. It's a question of language - may be the fact that English is not my 1st language has something to do with it...

Maybe I can help out a bit. Where in Dayton are you? FYI, you are not going to find a café in Dayton that is worth the waste of gas to get to. I am up in Quail Hallow Dayton/Huber border.

I would have to agree that i'd never call espresso "sweet". Unless in the modern lingo sense a la, "Dude, that shot was sweeeeeet!" Otherwise no. A good shot is neither sour nor bitter so perhaps may seem sweet in comparison. Although this is like calling Jack The Ripper a nice guy because he's standing next to Hilter.

I can, honestly, say that I've had a lot of shots of espresso that are, without a doubt, "sweet" in the sensory manner.

The coffee Kyle Glanville used for his WBC espresso is a good example. Extracted correctly, this was a truly sweet coffee as in the sense of "Having the taste of sugar or a substance containing or resembling sugar, as honey or saccharin."

Progress report!
Here it is 3 weeks after the great advice from all of you and yesterday cannonfodder came over with his scace and we spent a couple of hours pulling shots of SM's Ophiolite that I roasted and the Intelligensia Black Cat SO. I really apprecitate the time Dave took from his busy schedule to share his expertise personally.
Over the past couple of weeks, I have reduced the brew pressure to 9 bar and installed the group temperature probe from Chris's coffee. Yesterday, Dave and I determined the temperature characteristics of my Andreja Premium and that is going to help a lot. Dave pointed out that I wasn't quite level in my tamping and that I needed more precision in my scale which only measures to the nearest gram. We found that I was probably overextracting and getting bitter flavors. My time was OK, but I was getting a little too much volume.
Anyway - thank you all!
It's really nice to have such a bunch of experts available to help a newby - I feel like you all jump started me toward good consistent espresso!
Mac

Since you were (lucky enought to be able) to use a SCACE along with your group thermometer on the Andreja I was wondering if you could share some of the temperature differentials during a shot between the two readings?

Thanks

OK, I'll try to pass on what I learned. We didn't record anything and it happens very fast. I discovered that there are significant differences in the initial difference between the group head and the scace depending on how long since the last shot. We were doing flush and go. I learned to flush until the group head is about 2 degrees above desired brew temp and that the brew head and the PF temperature are very close (within 1/2 degree) in the last part of the shot. The flush temperature difference decreases if it hasn't been very long since the last shot and increases if it has been a long time. I learned to watch the group head temp at the end of the shot to see where I ended up. It all happened really fast and perhaps Dave can correct me where I'm wrong.
Mac

EDIT: As I reread this it sounds like I didn't learn anything from Dave or was ungrateful. I was neither! I'm guessing the uncertainty in the post reflects the fact that I'm still in awe of the process of making good espresso. I never imagined that there could be so many interrelated variables in general, and specifically that the process of flushing a HX machine would be less than simple once temperature measurements could be brought into play! So with good guidance from the forum and Dave, I'm trying to become one with the machine and my shots, less than perfect as they may be, are good. I'm enjoying the journey. Thank you all! Mac