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Stupid pre-infusion question

Postby raduray on Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:13 am

I'm considering my first home espresso machine and am considering the Silvano. One area of concern is its lack of pre-infusion, which I've read is more forgiving of portafilter filling and tamping errors. So, here's the question: Will pouring some hot water over the top of the packed portafilter before inserting it into the machine and pulling the shot serve the same purpose as pre-infusion?
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Postby Chert on Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:45 am

Funny thing. I use a lever and I had this same idea today. I am going to try it with water 30 seconds off the boil. My purpose is different: I want to decrease the amount of air in the process with my lever group. Try it, see what happens.


It will be an ambient pressure preinfusion
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Postby jonny on Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:13 pm

I wouldn't think it would make much difference especially as a beginner trying to balance 20 other things and keep them consistent, adding one more thing I think will just frustrate you more. I would just use the machine as intended. Pre-infusion isn't necessary and isn't obtained until you get into $1000+ machines. Vibe pumps, however, do have a degree of natural preinfusion in the time it takes them to get the system up to pressure. A simpler way to try some preinfusion would be to toggle the pump on for a couple seconds, turn it off, then toggle it on again to finish the brew. A lot of lower end machines have this method built into the circuitry. I think this would in theory make more of a difference than just pouring none pressurized water over a packed puck. If you can't afford a $1500 e61 machine that has it built in, I don't see why you should stress about it. Just get what you can afford, and learn to use it.

EDIT: on the other hand, if you can afford a better machine like an hx e61 box, it will probably save you more in the long run since most people have a tendency to get upgraditis whether they really need it or not :wink:
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Postby HB on Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:27 pm

I agree with Jonny that an explicit preinfusion mechanism like the E61 expansion chamber isn't the sole contributor to the so-called "forgiveness factor". The naturally slower pressure ramp up of a vibratory pump / gicleur combination and even water diffusion suffices. If you want to play with extending the pressure increase on a single boiler, the trick described in Rancilio Silvia Preinfusion Technique should work.

I've never used the Silvano so I cannot offer an assessment, but I will reiterate that shopping by spec sheet comparisons is largely pointless. Commentary from experienced owners or quality review websites are far more revealing.
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Postby Chert on Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:02 pm

Don't pour hot water on top of your prepared espresso unless a mess you wish to make. I tried it.

But with the lever group you can move the lever to open the valve, close it barely, lock in the portafilter and proceed with making the shot. This does significantly decrease the amount of air in the chamber such that after the extraction the top of the puck is wet whereas usually, because of the squishy column of air which stays near the piston, the puck is dry.
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Postby Jedi012 on Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:49 pm

I actually had a chance to talk to Scott from Chris' Coffee Service about the Silvano and comparing it to the Crossland CC1. I actually directly asked the exact question about how important the preinfusion on the Silvano was.

He pointed out to me that the Silvano does actually ramp up in pressure over a few seconds, so he likened it to a "pseudo-preinfusion" where you get some of the same benefits. You can see it at around 4:44 on the video here: http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom...so/silvano

Also, here is a post where I listed other important points from the conversation. I think they might be useful if you are considering the Silvano. Chris Coffee Carrying Crossland CC1
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