I recently bought a La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II and am trying to make use of its very powerful steam wand. Up until now, when I used to own a Pavoni, I'd never really tried to make lattes at home.

I'm getting the hang of it but I'm not making any progress. It seems that the top of the pitcher is a little too frothy while the bottom is too thin. When I pour (which is very slowly), the unfoamed milk at the bottom pours under the top cap of foam, and only at the end of the pour does the foam come out, albeit in dollops and not a smooth stream. The overall drink has nice, but not great texture: It's certainly better than Starbucks but not close to even an average serious cafe.

Anyone have advice as to what I'm doing wrong? I fill just less than half a small pitcher, dip the tip of the steam wand just barely below the surface, turn on the steam. Once I get the nice sucking sound, I *slowly* keep moving the pitcher up, immersing the wand more. After it gets too hot to hold with my other hand, I kill the steam and start tapping and swirling.

After you've heard the sucking sound a good few seconds and you feel the pitcher getting warm- submerge the steam wand deeper into the milk. With a latte you don't want a massive amount of microfoam, so the few seconds of sucking/ tearing sound is all you need. Secondly, when your milk is finished steaming, swirl the pitcher in very small circular movements like you would wine in a glass ( be careful not to spill any foam!), this further fuses the foam and milk and prevents the separation you are experiencing. Also, it helps to have the shot already pulled with lattes, so you can pour the milk almost immediately after steaming. Hope this helps

brisbane87 wrote:I recently bought a La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II and am trying to make use of its very powerful steam wand. Up until now, when I used to own a Pavoni, I'd never really tried to make lattes at home.

I'm getting the hang of it but I'm not making any progress. It seems that the top of the pitcher is a little too frothy while the bottom is too thin. When I pour (which is very slowly), the unfoamed milk at the bottom pours under the top cap of foam, and only at the end of the pour does the foam come out, albeit in dollops and not a smooth stream. The overall drink has nice, but not great texture: It's certainly better than Starbucks but not close to even an average serious cafe.

Anyone have advice as to what I'm doing wrong? I fill just less than half a small pitcher, dip the tip of the steam wand just barely below the surface, turn on the steam. Once I get the nice sucking sound, I *slowly* keep moving the pitcher up, immersing the wand more. After it gets too hot to hold with my other hand, I kill the steam and start tapping and swirling.

I have the same machine as you and when I first got it I had alot of trouble getting good microfoam. It took me a couple months to figure it out trying different tips but nothing seemed to help. I now use the tip that came with the machine and it works great. I start with the pitcher 1/3 full with cold milk. I purge the wand of water and angle it out and up and put the wand in the pitcher by the spout. Then I rotate the pitcher clock wise so the wand is pointing along the side of the pitcher and below the surface of the milk. Start steaming and lower the pitcher till you get alittle sucking sound, keep lowering the pitcher to keep the sucking sound till milk gets to 80 - 100deg. At this point I raise the pitcher so theres no sucking sound and angle it alittle more to get a whirlpool going and heat to 140deg. Stop steaming and wait for the steam to stop before removing the wand from the milk. Give the pitcher a few good taps on the counter, swirl the milk and tap again. Your milk should be combined well and ready to pour. The biggest mistake I found I was making in the beginning was having the wand pointing into the middle of the pitcher. When I repositioned it so it made the milk swirl in the pitcher my microfoam improved. My previous machine was a gaggia caressa and I didnt have to be that exact with the wand position. Good luck, that machine is a great steamer when you figure it out.

What kind of milk are you using?
Whole milk will give you the most luxurious foam. Skim will give you stiff foam that separates easily.

brisbane87 wrote:Once I get the nice sucking sound, I *slowly* keep moving the pitcher up, immersing the wand more.

It sounds like you're getting mostly hot milk with a little oversteamed foam on top. Looks like preceding posters have given you lots of useful details: tapping, swirling, tip orientation. But the fundamental issue is tip height relative to milk surface. Once you get the slight sucking sound, you move the pitcher *down* (not up) to keep the tip immersion depth constant (not sinking) until the milk is ~body temperature, and only then sink it a bit, enough to quell the sound. Stop when it begins to feel too warm to hold. If you do nothing else, this should give you a decent result, assuming your raw materials are good (2 thumbs up for very cold fresh whole milk, and try various brands - they can vary a lot in steaming performance and flavor).

Brisbane87:

I feel your pain.

For the last 2.5 years I have been making daily 2 quad shot lattes for my wife and me with a PID'd (Watlow w/Steam control) Silvia. Nice results.

When my teenage daughter started to ask for a coffee drink too, I wanted, and felt I earned a dual boiler machine.

I received my beautiful Duetto 2 a little over week ago. Quickly, I am getting beautiful consistent shots.

But, now I am dumbfounded, why I cannot make latte art quality microfoam. I assumed it would be easier, not harder than my old Silvia. I too am getting stiff (no big bubble) foam on top and thin low bubble steamed milk on the bottom, despite the big swirl and bang on the counter, different hole tips, and my super chilled pitcher. We drink Horizon ultra-pasteurized skim milk. I tried some whole milk too and it really did not really help my microfoam.

I love my new machine, but I hate the way it has made me feel about my ability to pour a latte. I need to fix this. So, keep the suggestions coming HB experts.

I don't consider myself an expert on making microfoam, but one thing I've found is that technique and timing tend to vary, sometimes a lot, from machine to machine and pitcher to pitcher (and even from brand of milk to brand of milk!)

Don't feel bad that you suddenly can't get great microfoam with your new machine. The amount of steam power and the tip configuration can make a big difference in determining what techniques work for producing the best microfoam. What you have to do is practice, practice, practice, trying different variations until you hit on the right methodology (true of espresso in general, IMHO.)

A useful practice technique is to fill the pitcher with water and add one drop of liquid dish soap. It foams in a manner very similar to milk. Here's a post containing a video of Scott Rao demonstrating how to do it.

What the video doesn't say is that you should practice with dish soap over and over until you can consistently produce silky foam without bubbles. It may take quite a few tries, but it's quick, easy and cheap to load up with another pitcher of dish soap solution.

I recently bought the Espro Toroid pitchers to give them a try. I had been able to make excellent microfoam with my Motta pitcher, but wanted to see if I could do it more consistently with the Espro Toroid. I was mighty disappointed when the first few attempts produced poor microfoam. Not bath bubbles, but a lot of small bubbles visible under the surface. It was only after about an hour of practicing with dish soap that I hit on the right technique. As it turns out, the technique is similar to what I use with the Motta pitcher. My mistake had been following the instructions that came with the Espro to keep the tip in the center of the pitcher!

(NB: the Espro pitcher is nice and ergonomically pleasing, and it has a different tip configuration that produces finer latte art lines than the Motta, but I wouldn't say it contributes to significantly better microfoam or helps me to be any more consistent than the Motta -- or any other pitcher, for that matter.)

You'll see in the video that one important part of the stretching technique is to position the tip so the sucking noise is gentle and intermittent. If you suck big globs of air in, you're more likely to stretch too much or get bubbles. Once the side of the pitcher gets to about body temperature, you lower the tip so it's just under the surface and the sucking noise stops. Position the tip to get as vigrous a whirlpool or standing waves as you can. This will incorporate the milk and foam. Often it helps to move the tip to the side of the pitcher, tilt the pitcher more, etc. When the pitcher begins to feel hot, turn off the steam, let the last of the steam escape the wand and pull the tip out.

The dish soap solution is a very good way to try different techniques and timing.

Note that the steaming technique varies, mainly in terms of timing, with different kinds of milk. So once you've nailed the general technique with dish soap, you'll need to practice with different kinds (and perhaps brands) of milk.

As has been noted, skim milk is a little more difficult to steam, comes out a little stiffer and tends to separate more quickly (and "bubbles up" on the surface within a few minutes if the microfoam isn't perfect.) But practice really helps: I steam skim milk virtually every day and honestly can do it much better than I can steam whole milk, which I rarely use.

As for brands, I've had the least success with cheap supermarket skim milk and the most success with high-quality milk from local dairies.

With skim milk. I find it's generally best to let the microfoam sit for 10-15 seconds before swirling the pitcher. If you overstretched a little, you might want to let it sit for less time; if you understretched a little you might try letting it sit for slightly more time. Then tap and swirl the pitcher. If the milk has been properly steamed, you'll get a beautiful shiny top on it.

Thank you. Great post. I will get to work and report back.

Good luck! After carefully digesting all the posts here I finally created some pourable microfoam! My past efforts were stiff foam on top of hot milk. I've been really focusing on it with milk and soapy water the last week and these posts nailed it for me. And I've been chilling my pitcher and using fresh whole milk lately.

The full story is I had plugged 3 of the 4 holes on my Livietta steam tip awhile back with the pressurestat set to .9 to 1.1. Steaming was painfully slow and I wasn't getting any results.

Because I didn't think I was getting hot enough water for shots I bumped my pstat up to about 1.05 to 1.25, immediately started getting better shots along with tons of steam. But still no good microfoam.

So the other day I unplugged all the holes to get back to the 4 hole tip. With that I was starting in the center with the steam full blast and was getting slightly better results but it was happening way too fast for me as a beginner.

After reading through these posts I decided to not open the steam valve all the way, I figured I try placing the tip near the wall of the pitcher this time rather than the center, and I paid the closest attention yet on the sucking sounds. I also steamed after pulling my shot, I'm dialing in a new bean so didn't want to be distracted with steaming. And miracles of miracles I had some pourable foam!

remember, the slower the stretch, the better. in other words, the gentler the introduction of air, the finer the microfoam. Do it as slowly as you can, until you reach the desired volume, and all before the milk gets too warm to take more air.