From Poll : One Shot Grind Remnants

cafeIKE wrote:2nd shot's almost always tasted better that the first. No amount of grinder tweaking, shot volume or temperature adjustment could ameliorate the problem.

and

another_jim wrote:I almost always get a a better 2nd shot even when I clear the grinder or switch grinders. I've driven myself crazy with flushing regimes, to no avail. Even semi-commercial machines need a few shots at espresso flow rates to find their groove. Someone needs to invent an inexpensive reusable puck or restricted-basket to make pulling blank shots convenient.

then

cannonfodder wrote:Oil will dissolve oil, water does nothing to it. from Backflushing - How far is not far enough?

For the last while, I've been collecting up the grinder purges through the day and pulling tomorrow's 1st shot with them. Directly into the tray! Let the group sit for a bit to allow the coffee to 'work'.

For the non-purging Pollyanna / miser, a few grams in the blind basket works as well.

Not quite a quantum leap, but the delta between 1st and 2nd consumable has diminished considerably.
Same improvement on the HX and DB.

Oh yes!

Oh yes!

I love these "now why didn't I think of that?" moments.....

Thank you!

Someone needs to invent an inexpensive reusable puck or restricted-basket to make pulling blank shots convenient.

"Paging Mr. Scace, Mr. Scace, call for you on line two!"

D'ya suppose that my great huge commercial machine would benefit from that as well? I mean, the first thing I tend to do when I go to make a shot is to dab the doppio semi button and turn to the grinder. Would I benefit more from locking in the Scace Device to do that, or does it actually have to have ground coffee in it?

I think what you're doing here is dissolving old oils with new oils, thus removing any rancid coffee oils from the machine. These rancid oil impart a lot of bad taste in the cup, but the oils from the stale coffee you use for the priming shot does not impart taste to the same extent. Fresh coffee would probably still be the best, since then the "machine oils" would then be fresh, and lower the "taste delta" between consumed shots one and two even more, but as long as #1 is good enough I don't really see the benefit from this.

So it's not the temperature, it's the oils; and a coffee backflush will do the trick? Never even suspected of that.

Stuggi wrote:I think what you're doing here is dissolving old oils with new oils, thus removing any rancid coffee oils from the machine. These rancid oil impart a lot of bad taste in the cup,

I guess that's why I do the PF wiggle after each shot, and the water backflush after each session.

Uh huh. BTDT. IMO, the residue 'rots' over night. I did try a test of leaving a shot of a few coffees in a cup over night. The aroma was not too bad, but the taste. YECHH!

One thing I didn't try was leaving the machine on 24/7.

Waste a few grams and let us know.

cafeIKE wrote:One thing I didn't try was leaving the machine on 24/7.

Er, of course that part of the equation always slips my mind. I turned my machine off last Friday morning for the third time this year. Once was for maintenance.

I was curious as to what the water in the HX might be like after three days cool, so that first shot went into a clear glass. I drank it after it cooled, and it tasted pretty good. Didn't seem to have any grounds or coffee flavoring, any metallic taste, or anything. And I do not like tap water here, so...

I'm feeling pretty good about cleaning the group after each use, and the brew path after each session.
And I've made two shots in a row before, and tasted each, and I haven't seen anything remarkable between the two.
It still could be that I don't have that sensitive a palate.

Speaking of HX, a couple of days, I didn't sink the 1st shot and flushed the HX from hot to cold. No help.
Didn't bother with big flush test on the DB.

How about keeping your last puck in the machine and pulling your 'send a thief to catch a thief' shot through that?

Regards, Henry

Keep the puck in the machine overnight?
Let us know

I've been drinking french press for the last couple months (equipment and time constraints ), but the same idea might work with a press as well

French presses also get serious oil build up, and while I don't like having to dismantle the sieve to clean it, after a week or so it becomes noticeable in the coffee.

Regards, Henry

After I decant my press pot, I will put a couple drops of dish detergent in the press, fill it about 3/4 with water, put the press in and 'froth' the detergent up. Pretty much cleans it all up.

cannonfodder wrote:After I decant my press pot, I will put a couple drops of dish detergent in the press, fill it about 3/4 with water, put the press in and 'froth' the detergent up. Pretty much cleans it all up.

I do that has well but not every time, I usually only rinse in hot water and soap "froth" once a week. I find that because the dish detergent will leave a taste to it that I can taste on the first "push" after the soap has gone in. I never could completely rinse that taste out. Same thing with the tea pot!

Stuggi wrote:I think what you're doing here is dissolving old oils with new oils, thus removing any rancid coffee oils from the machine.

Unfortunately this has the ring of truth. But the implications are ugly. As in, how long does the machine have to sit before the coated coffee oils get nasty? Sigh. Looks like I may need to rethink my cleaning regimen. Thanks, Ian.

Whale wrote:I find that because the dish detergent will leave a taste to it that I can taste on the first "push" after the soap has gone in. I never could completely rinse that taste out.

I have heard others complain about residual soap taste, but I have to wonder if this is truly a factor. Detergents are formulated to dissolve easily in water. Let's say a thorough rinse removes 99% of the detergent in your coffee or tea pot. After three rinses, you are down to one part in a million. After six rinses (which we used for biochem lab glassware, back in my former life), it's one part in a trillion.

It's possible that dish detergent adheres to certain materials, and is only released in the presence of coffee or tea. But that seems unlikely for glass and most metals (dunno about organics like plastics).

One suggestion: dilute the dish detergent before squeezing it on your glassware. You don't need much. As Dave said, a couple of drops is sufficient for a thorough cleaning.

I really can taste the soap right after the wash. I do try to rinse a lot, wipe and rinse again but still. Also, I find that the offending soapy taste is a lot stronger/discernable in tea.

When I was a youngster, my mother would tell me never to put soap in her tea pot. That it made the tea taste bad. Well, as you may know by now, I question everything and I tried it. And she was right!

I still do it in the french press because of the oily film that I am afraid will leave more of a bad taste than the soap. At least I can only taste the soap once after washing. I think that the soap residue may get stuck to the press filter. These don't rinse easily.

I usually only wash the tea pot, and cups for that matter, with hot water and give it a strong rub. I hate the taste of dish soap. And I have tried many brands.

Have you tried Urnex Cafiza? I've always used a touch of espresso machine cleaner (Joe Glo right now, though I don't like it as much as Cafiza) on my vac pot and French press. It just takes a bit, and a few hot rinses (with tea tap water) to get it very clean. I haven't used a French press in ages, but I sure don't pick it up on the vac pot. Granted, on the vac pot I don't use the Cafiza on the filter (I use cloth).

Since everyone else has gone OT

"Our teapots break before they are washed." admonished my Nan, more than a half century ago.

hbuchtel wrote:after a week or so it becomes noticeable in the coffee.

No sh*t, Sherlock! Eons ago, day 3 was determined as the FP teardown maintenance limit.

To clean FP: disassemble, wash with dishes. [FP is washed first, before anything else] Mechanically scrub all parts with brush in HOT, CLEAN soapy water. Mechanically scrub all parts under clear HOT water stream. Air dry.

Whale wrote:I find that because the dish detergent will leave a taste to it that I can taste on the first "push" after the soap has gone in. I never could completely rinse that taste out. Same thing with the tea pot!

That's exactly what Urnex's Clearly Coffee was designed to do, and it does it very well. Machine cleaners will do a better job if there's an existing build-up, but Clearly Coffee rinses completely and it's easy to use a few grains after each use of the press. And it's cheap if you buy a box of packets from the Urnex web site.

Best,
David

I use Urnex Cafiza with the espresso machine. Must admit that have never tried with the French press. At home I only use the press only very occasionally mostly with guess ( I still have not converting all my friends).

Most french press usage is done amy mom country place (she is resisting all my attempt at conversion to the espresso side) and Tea is at the office (no espresso there). Urnex Cafiza is not answering the call at either place (yet?).