Psyd wrote:I should really be cleaning my machine three and four times a day? Cheez, Starbucks is looking almost tolerable, now that my drinks are costing me about the same amount, and I'm going to end up doing all the work in addition.

I have to say, I'm far too happy with my present drinks to go through a detergent backflush regime more'n say, twice a day, and to pull one or two seasoning shots for each and every shot I have during a normal day?
Never. Gonna. Happen.

Who does this? Due respect, Chris, I think this falls into the category of a bit overly obsessed. This makes my CDO look sub-clinical! ; >

I, also, think that Chris Surgical sanitization is ONLY applicable to commercial applications, not the average home. I have tried the backflush everyday, let alone every session, and found no taste reason to do it. In fact the detergent backflush required more sinking of shots to get to the same taste level. I find the taste of Cafiza a lot more offensive than the taste of old oil and I get rid of that with a single "Ian's sacrificial 1st shot". And this is after 12 hours of idle time.

With respect to leaving the puck in the P/F, I think that this is really going to degrade the taste of the first shot a whole lot. When I do so (I am human and I do forget between two morning shot, only say 5-10 minutes) the coffee really get stuck and baked in the holes of both the basket and the group screen. After only 10 minutes, imagine 12 hours.

Fullsack wrote:She likes a lot of milk in her espresso, so I'm not being a total heel.

Ditto. She drinks a 10-12 ounce lattè in the morning. My first drink is usually a cappuccino. After that, she's usually done, and I'm onto espresso . . . unless one of my daughters wants a lattè, too.

Whale wrote:I, also, think that Chris Surgical sanitization is ONLY applicable to commercial applications, not the average home....

Perhaps so, and there is no question that mine is not an "average" home, but since getting the new machine I have been doing the detergent flush after every session using the machine's automatic cleaning sequence.

Whale wrote:I, also, think that Chris Surgical sanitization is ONLY applicable to commercial applications, not the average home. I have tried the backflush everyday, let alone every session, and found no taste reason to do it. In fact the detergent backflush required more sinking of shots to get to the same taste level. I find the taste of Cafiza a lot more offensive than the taste of old oil and I get rid of that with a single "Ian's sacrificial 1st shot". And this is after 12 hours of idle time.

I would argue that it's not a "commercial vs home" decision but rather a hyper-educated palate vs less-educated palate issue.

Agreed, Chris, though I might have said "hyper-educated" versus "average" or "normal" . . .

malachi wrote:I would argue that it's not a "commercial vs home" decision but rather a hyper-educated palate vs less-educated palate issue.

By this are you implying that having an educated palate is having the same perception as you? Or that my palate is less educated than yours?

I have written before that my palate education included extensive soap flavour detection techniques that I find very offensive and always remain after detergent backflush. Maybe you should give yours a refresher course on this.

JonR10 wrote:Perhaps so, and there is no question that mine is not an "average" home, but since getting the new machine I have been doing the detergent flush after every session using the machine's automatic cleaning sequence.

Jon. In no way was I implying that being very thorough in the cleaning regimen is a bad thing. Indeed, the GS/3 "auto-cleaning" functionality (for what I know of it , which is not much) seems to makes it easy and convenient. And probably does a better job than me at rinsing and removing any residual detergent flavour.

Fortunately or unfortunately, whichever way you look at it, my GS3 Paddle doesn't have an auto clean option. There are disciplines that I will accept and others that I can't comprehend the logic. I will backflush with water at the end of each day and on Wednesday and Saturday evenings I will use Carfiza. A high volume day is about six drinks. I have been doing this for a couple weeks now and I can't detect any flavor changes. We are anal about cleaning the machine, the screen and head after each pull. I will remove the screen every other day and remove the coffee that has adhered to the inside rim of the screen. There are no oils or stains on anything visible.

I learn a lot from you guys and perhaps I will take serious more of the things that each of you do as I become more experienced. I just don't want to become overly obsessed with it and lose perspective of what it is and what it does so well. Hope you understand.

Whale wrote:By this are you implying that having an educated palate is having the same perception as you? Or that my palate is less educated than yours?

I have written before that my palate education included extensive soap flavour detection techniques that I find very offensive and always remain after detergent backflush. Maybe you should give yours a refresher course on this.

Your belligerent and argumentative tone is counter-productive and I have little to no interest in going through a d*ck-wagging session about our respective "educations."

Take the original comment however you would like but suffice it to say that it was clearly not intended to be derisive or demeaning and instead merely to clarify.

malachi wrote:I would argue that it's not a "commercial vs home" decision but rather a hyper-educated palate vs less-educated palate issue.

I'm thinking that this is, perhaps, the case.
Probably sacrilege, I know, but I'm thinking that I may have gotten to the place that I want to get to, if my present five to seven minute (including all of the prep and *all* of the cleanup) 18 - 18.5g doppio has to get itself to a 36 to 37g production of twenty to thirty minutes each.
Other than the GS-3's automated cleanup, perhaps.
Following the laws of diminishing returns, I have seen grinder improvements, bean improvements and technique improvements provide incrementally smaller and smaller improvements in the cup. As it should be, and as is the way of the world.
I salute you, and your superior palate (and trust me, this is respect, not sarcasm), but I think I'll just sit right here and drink my cappuccino, thankeweverramush.

So, I've never actually had anyone suggest how long a 'session' is, and how long a machine sits idle between shots before it becomes two sessions.

If y'all are sitting home alone on a lazy Sunday, and have a coupla morning shots, a late morning shot, and early afternoon shot, and an early evening shot, the machine gets four detergent cleanings? And four sinked (sunk?) seasoning shots? When do these cleanings occur? Prior to your shot? Before you sit to enjoy the shot after pulling it?
It's all just somewhat overwhelming, as I was kinda thinking that I was maybe a bit overly obsessed.
On the upside, though, y'all might have saved me enough in psychiatry to upgrade from the Astoria! ; >

malachi wrote:Your belligerent and argumentative tone is counter-productive and I have little to no interest in going through a d*ck-wagging session about our respective "educations."

Take the original comment however you would like but suffice it to say that it was clearly not intended to be derisive or demeaning and instead merely to clarify.

I am sorry that you felt I was belligerent. It was not the intent.

I thought that "my palate education included extensive soap flavour detection techniques" was absurd enough to sound like a joke and that "Maybe you should give yours a refresher course on this" was just a little nudge... Again, I am sorry if it crossed you in any way.

I will maintain and be argumentative on the fact that one's perception is not better than another. " hyper-educated palate vs less-educated palate issue" came out strong and did frazzled me a bit. I may not be a pro-barista but my palate is no less educated at detected various flavours.

Hope we are cool.