Peppersass wrote: ...and a few posts have come close to insulting other members.

Close! Ok, maybe I am a little too sensitive but some of the posts were derogatory, condescending and insulting. I understand that some members have been around long enough to be able to "read between the lines" of other members but clearly there is animosity between some. This makes it hard for the newer member to get into the discussion.

Nonetheless, a discussion should not be blocked because it is going sour. Maybe, an offending poster should be asked to layoff a bit if need be (and I have seen posts that would have required it). But let the discussion carry on. It may have value to someone.

Peppersass wrote: It's certainly of value to point out that pulling a shot flushes out rancid oils, and that as a result machines used less frequently need to be cleaned more often. But does it really take 5 pages to get that point across?

Is this really the only thing you got out of this thread? Personally, I have discussed and learned quite a lot more. Even if the tone of this discussion made it hard to stay interested...

I won't apologize for being an espresso novice but I will share with you what I have experienced in a little over two months. My first machine was an Alex Duetto II. Excellent machine and both my wife and I spent a lot of time learning how to use it. We became much better at consistently making rich espresso than we did at steaming milk. We have owned the La Marzocco GS/3P for about a week and in the last two days we believe we have locked in our Redline coffee for consistently good shots. The differences are there and both of us have noticed it. The LM blondes quicker than the Duetto during the pull. The extraction is a much darker and thicker consistency with the LM. I have this habit of smelling every shot and the smell is different. You could often smell a sourness from the Duetto shots that I have never smelled with the LM regardless if an over extraction, under extraction or spot on. There seems to be a fullness to the flavor that was missing with the Duetto. This is what I have experienced so far.

Its a work in progress and I am enjoying it very much. I appreciate everyone's input.

It occurred to me, by using a blank basket, you wouldn't get the fresh coffee oils onto the filter basket or portafilter, so I flush the dirty dispersion screen through the filter basket and portafilter after the blank basket pre shot.

This past weekend was U.S. Thanksgiving, a 4 day respite from the office. Just for grins, I didn't back-flush the office machine group with cleaner on Wednesday last as is normal on Friday.

At home, the group was cleaned with Cafiza as normal on Saturday. Didn't sink the first shot this morning. It had a decidedly 'metallic' taste. The 2nd shot was fine.

At the office this morning, sank the first shot as usual. The taste of the real first shot was decidedly off, much 'mustier' than overnight. Not until the 3rd shot late in the day did the taste 'clear'

Coffee all from the same ¼#. Grinders purged.

Chris is probably right : the group should be back-flushed w cleaner every night and the first shot(s) sunk.

Its been a few days since I started trying out the "Ian sacrificial 1st shot" procedure and I am now convinced. It does make a difference for me. Even if I did not tried it for 100 days.

I have tried doing it with a dirty machine (no backflushing after the previous day last shot), with only water backflusing (3 backflushes) and also with detergent backflusing all done at the end of the session.

The least impact/benefit was seen when the machine was water backflushed the day before, but still could be tasted (as mentioned by Ian from his last weekend experience, mostly a metallic taste to it). Following the detergent backflush there is a requirement for the sacrificial shot anyway but I find that even the following shot is not always free of detergent taste if I do not water backflush after the first sacrificial shot. The taste of the first shot on the dirty machine was nasty enough compared to the second one to seal the deal.

Could not see a taste benefit difference between the water backflushed and the detergent backflushed that would convince me to detergent backflush every day.

So in short, FWIW, I am adopting the "Ian sacrificial 1st shot" procedure with water backflush after each session and a detergent backflush once a week.

Je vous en prie

Sorry Ian, I should have thanked you.

Ian's post below and those that follow on the same subject split to Saturated group vs. E61 group on temperature repeatability...

cafeIKE wrote:Darker & thicker vs light & sour can be a temperature change.

No doubt the GS/3 excels at temperature repeatability shot to shot, day to day. It's unlikely any e61 is in the same league. Anyone using an e61 without Eric's adapter is brewing blind working much harder than necessary.

So, coffee cheapskate here. How many hours have to pass before sinking the first shot is 'necessary'?
I mean, if I'm pulling a coupla shots within an hour at, say, eight thirty, twenty minutes apart, should I sink one before I get my second cuppa? What about the after noon shot at, say, noon? Or what if it were two or three? How about that one in the evening at six?
I'm kind of afraid to get into the habit of doubling up my coffee consumption. If I discover that I get a so much better shot after an hour, I certainly will have to double the amount of coffee required to make the same number of shots.
I kinda feel like this may be an 'ignorance is bliss' situation for me.

Got into this thread a little late. Still back to Fullsack's comments earlier. I always give my wife the first shot. Chivalry is not dead

Cheers

Ian