I think my regulator will max at a little higher than 15 psi. My line gauge also reads only up to 15 psi.

I turn the regulator up and my gauge pecks. But when I do a middle lever shot it goes down to 14 psi. When I do an upper shot the gauge now reads 12.5 psi. I could change in the future to a higher regulator but I did another hybrid shot and it all taste good.

I think other people may have higher setting for the regulator than I do but I could try to change the bypass valve and see what happens

Cheers

That's what Ken and Jim concluded in How to Preinfuse; Extraction Pressure Redux, i.e., a few seconds of preinfusion at 3 bar made a positive difference for some coffees. See The Impact of Preinfusion on the Taste of Espresso Shots for their test results.

Dan. Thanks for that link

Just in case and for the goodness of human kind, tomorrow I'll do naked portafilter shots to see if mine also come from the side of the basket at low pressure.

Cheers

shadowfax wrote:That's all well and good, but it looks like you might have a problem with water falling sideways.

On Rafael's planet that is the norm.

OK. I tried to verify the low pressure side channeling and this is what I got. The low pressure makes everything go sloooow motion.

In a total of four attempts, I got the side channels to always wet before anything else. An even wet ring forms on the very edge but no drops. Soon afterwords, the wetness spreads towards the center and the first drops appear. The first drops start always from the edge at very low pressure.

Rafael's planet is full of bean challenges

Cheers

PS: Doses were always bellow 11 grams in double basket

Unless you have tasted shots from a paddle group machine I think that attempting to simulate the results will be somewhat challenging.

After playing for some time, I think long preinfusion benefits from grinding coarser than normal. The flavor is fuller, tastier, and enhanced in a good way.

It reminds me somehow of how a french press works, where you leave large grounds soak for 4-5 mins, except that here, it is only about 10 seconds.

If you have an E61 with spring preinfusion, you can duplicate the effect by cutting the shot before it builds full pressure and letting it soak for 10 seconds or so. Then pull a regular shot but it will be maybe only 15 to 20 seconds instead of the normal 25 to 30 seconds.

Cheers

Hi folks!!!!

This morning, my mind didn't want to surrender to the idea that water always comes first from the sides, as previously exposed in this thread. At to this point, till my eyes saw in slow motion (low pressure) a naked shot, I've been creating a perfect mountain centered in the middle, believing that long time of initial extraction was a good sign of proper distribution. But a perfect mountain has a peak which later becomes a higher pressure point, which in turn, makes water start to come out first from the walls. At higher pressures, this small difference in puck pressure is not as apparent.

I've initiated a personal search for a method to prevent this from happening. So far, I've experimented with dipping my finger in the middle of the mountain (prior to tamping) forcing a 'weakness' in the middle with the aim of having an equally timed extraction. It is too early to make any claims due to the practical difficulty of tasting minor taste differences. However, I've gain an awareness that I previously didn't have. Now the sides start first to wet but immediately the center follows and drops start even _at low pressure_ (and of course high pressure).

Cheers to all

and how did it taste

They taste good. It helps to bring good qualities forward.

I just made a video demo but with different times (longer preinfusion, longer extraction, and finer grounds) to show the formation of the ring. This video was made using the self inflicted weakness to equalize the extraction so that drops don't start on the edges at low pressure.

This is how a normal basket looks (~ 10.60 grams if that matters)



this is how an equalized basket looks like



Once tampered all baskets look the same



This is the video of that basket with the new preparation method (making a dimple in the middle).



Cheers

PS: This coffee was decaf somewhat old jeje

so you're tamping without first doing any form of distribution?
or are you saying that you create that "depression" and then distribute and you see a difference?

Arpi wrote:This is how a normal basket looks (~ 10.60 grams if that matters)

Why are you dosing so low in a double? The shot looks very thin and watery, obviously I can't taste it though...

Malachi, I use the sifter distribution method, which consists on weighting the grounds, then using a sieve (kitchen colander), a funnel, and a brush to simulate a perfect doser (creates a centered perfect mountain). If I don't want to weight the grounds on a scale, I just put the portafilter under the doser. Putting the portafilter under the doser works very well with large doses but not small doses where small changes in weight make a significant difference in flavor.

Gyro, yes it was a little low. I think I am confusing people with these videos. Not too long ago, I was playing with doing single shots in double baskets jeje. It is touchy and borders the introduction of defects. But I have tried very bad looking shots (thin crema) that tasted very good.

The above video was only to demonstrate the results of the distribution. To get the benefits of long preinfusion, all I do is to wet the grounds momentarily (pump on/off for less than a second), count till 10, then I do a regular shot. I don't wait in low pressure till all grounds are soaked like in the video.

One interesting observation is that at low pressure, the formation of crema is zero, as if CO2 wasn't present. An all-low-pressure shot will make zero crema. It is only at high pressure when crema forms.

Cheers

I use the sifter distribution method, which consists on weighting the grounds, then using a sieve (kitchen colander), a funnel, and a brush to simulate a perfect doser (creates a centered perfect mountain).

I think that the goal is not a 'mountain,' but an even bed of coffee all around. That is why you are seeing the shot start on the edges, because you in fact don't have even distribution.

And actually, that shot is still starting on one edge, indicating that you do still do not have even distribution after making a volcano.

One interesting observation is that at low pressure, the formation of crema is zero, as if CO2 wasn't present. An all-low-pressure shot will make zero crema. It is only at high pressure when crema forms.

1) Crema isn't made of/by C02.
2) It has already been widely observed that lower-pressure = less crema. Go check out the lever-section for more evidence.

Wideawake, at constant very low pressure, defects on distribution will really stand up because drops will only occur at the weak points. At very low pressure channeling will really mean that, a channel. So the ultimate method to check your distribution is by trying it at constant low pressure. Do your shots show evenness at constant low pressure? I would love to see a video.

Cheers

Arpi wrote:Wideawake, at constant very low pressure, defects on distribution will really stand up because drops will only occur at the weak points. At very low pressure channeling will really mean that, a channel. So the ultimate method to check your distribution is by trying it at constant low pressure. Do your shots show evenness at constant low pressure? I would love to see a video.

Cheers

No, I only have a lowly-silvia, so I can't play around too much with pressure profiling (and my distribution is ANYTHING but perfect). But I think it is important to remember that you are really trying to achieve an even bed of coffee by whatever means necessary. A 'perfect mountain' of coffee is only valuable as an intermediate step towards that even bed, and not an end unto itself.

Peter

Arpi wrote:Malachi, I use the sifter distribution method, which consists on weighting the grounds, then using a sieve (kitchen colander), a funnel, and a brush to simulate a perfect doser (creates a centered perfect mountain). If I don't want to weight the grounds on a scale, I just put the portafilter under the doser. Putting the portafilter under the doser works very well with large doses but not small doses where small changes in weight make a significant difference in flavor.

That's not distribution.
That's dosing.

It sounds like you're reinventing the wheel a bit.
You might want to try one of the many distribution techniques that people have developed (stockfleth's, NSEW, WDT, Staub, modified stockfleth's, etc).


The point here is to create a bed of coffee in the basket that is of as close to even density throughout as is possible. The above mentioned distribution techniques are all solutions to this bedding goal.

The naked portafilter is a useful tool for diagnosing bedding issues (uneven density, uneven depth, etc).


FWIW - getting an "even" density bed of coffee can be far simpler than you might think. Your methodology seems incredibly complicated. I would suggest simplifying through some practice with distribution as you will likely find that this removes the need for things like sieves and brushes and scales and white chickens.

And in the end - it will result in better tasting coffee.



Just my $0.02 worth.

Malachi,

Everybody likes doing things his/her own way. The choice of doing one thing one way or another is very complex.

Cheers

I just made this little video. My espresso machine is now also a single cup PIDed drip maker.

Some random thoughts: PID temp controlled. Can forgive a sloppy distribution (I guess even the bad ones taste good). If you love americanos, this will blow your mind. Grind large but tamp as if for espresso. If you like crema, turn the pump on at the end for a final touch.



PS: the flavor is controlled by the grind size. Dose amount doesn't do much. Time is irrelevant but I guess that volume control is important (ie. you don't want to do two cups with little grounds). It can get very sweet.

yeppii!! I love it

ahhhhhh...... The perfect paddle shot.