Good morning everyone,

This is something I've been thinking about ever since I gained an intuitive understanding of the relation between grind, dose, and tamp pressure, and how they work together for a certain result in the pour. Many (all?) beginner espresso articles give the "Golden Rule" of 2oz/14g/25sec, causing most to grab their stopwatch and bottomless PF (if available) and watch the flow espresso with more attention than they can give to any other single activity (staring at espresso beats out staring at a computer screen, right?). I've seen many posts here saying that we should toss away the stopwatch and concentrate on the flavor in the cup. This brings me to the point of my post: aren't terms like "extraction time" hiding behind them what we're really looking for, which is the "flow rate" of the coffee? Extraction time is certainly the best way to describe this, as only one (and exactly one) flow rate can produce a shot of X ounces in Y seconds. Can, or should, an emphasis on flow rate, and how it results from certain pressures, be added to some articles here? What can we say about the tastes of two shots with identical flow rates, one with a smaller dose and less ending volume than the other? I'd like to hear others' feedback on this idea: am I thinking of the extraction in the right way with this term?

As always, I'm looking forward to the great replies here. I apologize in shame if this has been in the articles all along and I've missed it (thanks to my attention span at the computer being far less than my espresso attention span). If this is the case, moderators, please feel free to silently make this thread disappear.

Dan

Hey dan, I think you bring up a good point about so much attention focusing on the time of the shot when, as you pointed out, it's the flavor in the cup that should matter. I know I "rely" on my stopwatch too much myself; however, my shots have become pretty consistent that I find it a good tool. I will say that the most popular advice is to stop a shot based on blonding regaurdless of time.

The time to volume ratio is the description of flow rate, but I actually disagree with you on focusing of flow rate verbage vs. time verbage. Here's why, regaurdless of method, the extraction is caused by the water spending time with the grinds. Generally speaking, the larger the grind the more time the water needs to be with the grinds; this is done either with the same water staying longer OR more water to extract the goodness from the grinds. Look at french press, the flow rate is.. well there isn't a flow rate, it's simply the grinds sitting in the water.

I do think flow rate is important though, because it determines the concentration of the espresso with ristretto being on one end and lungo being on the other end of the spectrum.

Joel_B wrote:Hey dan, I think you bring up a good point about so much attention focusing on the time of the shot when, as you pointed out, it's the flavor in the cup that should matter. I know I "rely" on my stopwatch too much myself; however, my shots have become pretty consistent that I find it a good tool. I will say that the most popular advice is to stop a shot based on blonding regaurdless of time.

I won't let you give me credit for that... I've seen that all over the forums from all the experts around here.

hehe, well, I didn't say you came up with it, but you did point it out And I think you were right to point it out to. I know for myself that I spnd too much time over analyzing the formula of espresso instead of the flavor of espresso. I've had some shots that either had some slight channeling or early blonding that still tasted good and some shots that visually looked great but tasted terrible.

I've seen a lot of espresso shots; so by this point, if I walked in on the middle of a flowing shot, with everything about it unknown, I could tell by the flow, within a few seconds, if it's about right or not. Moreover, additional info about dose, time, etc would do nothing to change my mind. Instead, if the flow was in the ballpark, I'd taste before suggesting any further modifications. It's the same for everybody with lots of shot making experience.

A beginner doesn't have this experience; and a complete beginner doesn't even know what the espresso shot should look like. So beginners should weigh and time their shots, until they are consistent. They should also observe closely how correctly dosed and timed shots flow and taste. Once they've done that, they can throw away whatever measuring instruments they no longer care to use.

A complete beginner often has no idea of how an espresso shot should taste. Many experienced espresso drinkers have never tasted a decent shot. Many have served a guest an only fair to middlin' espresso and had them exclaim something along the lines of "Wow! This is the best espresso I've ever had in my life!"

As an espresso shot is defined in terms of mass, temperature, pressure and time, if the neophyte is in the parameter ballpark, with decent coffee, they at least have fighting chance of producing something cognoscenti would call espresso. By removing these quantitative parameters as variables, concentration can be focused on technique.

cafeIKE wrote:A complete beginner often has no idea of how an espresso shot should taste. Many experienced espresso drinkers have never tasted a decent shot. Many have served a guest an only fair to middlin' espresso and had them exclaim something along the lines of "Wow! This is the best espresso I've ever had in my life!"

As an espresso shot is defined in terms of mass, temperature, pressure and time, if the neophyte is in the parameter ballpark, with decent coffee, they at least have fighting chance of producing something cognoscenti would call espresso. By removing these quantitative parameters as variables, concentration can be focused on technique.

Amen.

This would be a good place to remind people of that valuable standby: "Al's Rule," named for alt.coffee veteran, Al Critzer. Al's Rule allows for variation for ristrettos and lungos. Perhaps counter-intuitively, but borne out by long experience, good short shots take more time than normales, rather than less.

More here http://www.home-barista.com/tips/how-als-rule-saved-my-life-t302.html.

I prefer to think of it not as the golden rule, golden law, golden dogma, etc but as the golden suggestion, or how about golden starting point. There are very few 'rules' that you must abide by. Having been able to use a few different machines, I have had many of my preconceptions about the 'perfect parameter' blown out of the water. At first I thought you had to overdose for a good shot, Bzzz, wrong. Then I assumed that preinfusion was the cure for uneven extractions, Bzzz, wrong. Then there is the 'slow pressure ramp is best' rule, Bzzzz, wrong again, and then there is the entire group jet size dance to get the perfect water debit. That one went out the door when I started pulling shots on a 4 group LM that had no group jet at all, just a flow meter to restrict the water flow.

Each machine is different, same holds true for coffee and grinders, but a newbie needs some kind of basic beginning guidance and starting point to work from. Otherwise most would end in dismal failure and give up on the entire concept of good home espresso.

cannonfodder wrote:I prefer to think of it not as the golden rule, golden law, golden dogma, etc but as the golden suggestion, or how about golden starting point. There are very few 'rules' that you must abide by. Having been able to use a few different machines, I have had many of my preconceptions about the 'perfect parameter' blown out of the water. At first I thought you had to overdose for a good shot, Bzzz, wrong. Then I assumed that preinfusion was the cure for uneven extractions, Bzzz, wrong. Then there is the 'slow pressure ramp is best' rule, Bzzzz, wrong again, and then there is the entire group jet size dance to get the perfect water debit. That one went out the door when I started pulling shots on a 4 group LM that had no group jet at all, just a flow meter to restrict the water flow.

Too long to be nominated for a front page quote?