I've had Rocky & Silvia for almost 2 years now and seem to pull good shots. Although I must confess I've never had a pro pull a great shot for me so that I knew what a great shot tasted like. In Denver, I'm not sure of any GREAT coffee shops where I knew I was getting a GREAT shot from. That's quandary #1.

Here is my Silvia technique and please tell me if this sounds reasonable:

-Heat up machine for 20-30 minutes
-Grind the coffee in Rocky into the triple shot basket (I don't measure how many grams, I just fill it without overdosing)
-Preheat my cup by running water out of the steam wand, thus turning on the YELLOW light that signals machine is not ready
but warming
-Finger tamp the coffee around the outside edge of the basket and then firmly tamp on a flat surface
-Attach and lock portafilter
-YELLOW light goes off, I wait 40 seconds, empty my now very warm cup and pull the shot
-Now I've read that waiting 30-40 seconds gets the temp in line (temp surfing?) with where it should be

Generally, this produces a good result the VAST majority of the time. Does this sound like a similar routine that the rest of you Silvia owners go thru?

I'd love to upgrade to get the more perfect shot but not even sure what machine I'd get. I do not generally pull shot after shot, my wife has a Nespresso machine that she loves. I pull 3-4-5 shots in the morning over a 1-2 hour period.

I just want to get the most perfect shot I can for the shots that I pull. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks!

Beavis wrote:Does this sound like a similar routine that the rest of you Silvia owners go thru?

My Silvia days are a distant, faded memory, but what you outline sounds right. The forums contain a veritable treasure trove of information on Silvia and CoffeeGeek has terabytes of threads on the topic. I'm not aware of any espresso machine on the planet with more thorough documentation and user experience notes (one of the major reasons behind its popularity, but I digress). These are only a taste of the more fruitful past discussions: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. The FAQs and Favorites has more Silvia-specific links, although the Recommended reading should be your first stop.

Beavis wrote:I'd love to upgrade to get the more perfect shot but not even sure what machine I'd get.

You didn't mention why an upgrade is on your mind... but do any of the choices represented among the reviews catch your fancy?

It never ceases to amaze me how much work an 'entry level' espresso machine takes to make good espresso. I have upgraded a couple of times. My current kit, I grind, tamp, flush for 4 seconds post flash boil, lock in, put the cup under the portafilter and pull the shot. Good to very good every time, no fuss needed.

Eric recommended the Quickmill Alexia...Checked it out on Chris's site, might be the perfect fit. I could get a PID'd Alexia for around $1000 (since I'm so anal about the temp).
Now I have to be anal about the grinder. I know Rocky is good but the next step up in grinders seems to make a difference. It never ends. Thanks, Dan!

Grinders, definitely the most overlooked upgrade path out there. I started with a KitchenAid years ago, then Gaggia MDF, Mazzer Mini, LaCimbali Jr. (Mini and Cimabli are my current grinders) then the Titan grinder project comes along and a Mazzer Super Jolly and Kony grace my table. Sigh, now I need another upgrade.

dan_kehn wrote:So instead, we tried the other direction, hence why we call it "reverse temperature surfing." We introduced water until the boiler came on. Then we waited for the heating element to turn off. Then we plotted the drop off in temperature (1 minute, 2 minutes, 3 minutes, 4 minutes, 5 minutes... really boring stuff). By trial and error, we found that 2 minutes after the boiler clicks off with a well heated Silvia, the temperature reached 201F. At first we would get variances of 196, 197, 199, 199... and then 201, 201, ..., 201. It was that dead-on, time after time after time. His wife is a statistician and says we'd have to take at least 25 measurements to have any true statistical certainty; we stopped after six consecutive results of 201F. Obviously this type of temperature surfing requires lots of patience, since you're waiting about three minutes to get to the right temperature by the time it heats up to boiler shutoff and cools down to your target temperature.

OK. I followed Dan's tracks and he wrote this a while back.

Appears in the reverse temp surf, we need to wait more like 2 minutes (experimenting from 1-2 minutes anyway) vs. the 40 seconds I've been waiting.

This is not that hard...heat up the machine for 20 minutes, warm cup thru steam wand till boiler light turns ON, when boiler light goes OFF, wait around 2 minutes, hit BREW and pull a 28 second great shot. Voila.

I still might want a PID on Silvia. Or the upgrade to ALEXIA?

I've been meaning to ask, is Dan's technique based on the new or old Silvia machines, I can't recall it being mentioned anywhere? (apologies if I missed it). Mine is a 2006 machine.

I've seen recommendations of 0 (Jim Schulman), 30, 32, 35, 40, 45, 50, 60 and 120 (Dan) second reverse surfs. I was reccommended to try 30 seconds instead of 2 minutes, but didn't notice much difference. Without knowing at which point the temperature peaks it's all guesswork anyway*

After nearly 5 months of owning this machine I also completely agree with cannonfodder - using that technique with my setup just doesn't make good coffee.

It is true there are enormous amounts of info out there on Silvia - too much really. You can spend hours reading alt.coffee, coffeegeek, and here and still just have a stack of differing opinions. Maybe it is time for someone to write up a Silvia 'Redux' - bring together and update all of the perceived wisdom on this machine, separate the wheat from the chaff and post it somewhere you just can't miss it.

* I will get a PID eventually

DC wrote:I've been meaning to ask, is Dan's technique based on the new or old Silvia machines, I can't recall it being mentioned anywhere? (apologies if I missed it).

It was an "old" Silvia.

Beavis wrote:I still might want a PID on Silvia. Or the upgrade to ALEXIA?

If your only quibble with Silvia is the tedium of temperature surfing, PID it. If you think an upgrade would bring better results with less frustration, which I certainly do, then the Alexia is a promising choice. Jeff and I are in the second week of research if you have specific questions (link).

I will SCOUR that post. Many thanks. I'm hoping for a long term upgrade, 5 years +. From what you know, is ALEXIA a good long term choice or will one want MORE OF AN UPGRADE than this machine? I know it's hard to answer these goofy questions but your gut feel and experience are what many of us nitwits count on.
You and the boys do a GREAT job, your efforts, knowledge and experience are very much appreciated. Thank You.

The Quickmill Alexia is a single boiler "espresso purist" machine based upon the tried and true E61 group. If you're only an occasional latte / cappuccino drinker, it's hard to imagine upgrade fever striking anytime soon. The Buyer's Guide review thread will go into considerable detail and you are welcome to pose specific questions about the Alexia.