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Schomer book and DVDs; Illy book

Postby Peppersass on Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:04 pm

I just came across the Schomer book and DVDs on Vivace's site. Are these materials worthwhile for a budding barista who has been pulling shots and steaming milk for a couple of months, but wants to learn as much as possible about it? I mean, do the materials cover anything beyond the basics?

Is the Illy book useful for gaining a better understanding of how to make geat espresso, or is it mainly a theoretical treastise?
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Postby another_jim on Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:32 pm

The Schomer stuff is both outdated and doctrinaire, a bad combination (and sadly a lot like reading some of my old stuff).

The manual by Scott Rao is a whole lot better.

The Illy book is a must buy if you are serious about espresso. Some chapters are a slog, but the Rao handbook will bring you up to speed for most of them.
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Postby F.M. on Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:44 pm

I had the book "Espresso Coffee: Professional Techniques"...I still hold a grudge against the co-worker I loaned it to, who lost it!
:evil:

Anyways- excellent book. I learned a lot from it, and it's very well written.
If anything, it's TOO detailed or more specifically, aimed at semi-commercial operations rather than the home user. I took it all with a grain of salt as my home equipment budget will not provide the +/-.002d temperature stability that Schomer espouses. Should also be mentioned that this particular book really focuses on extraction quality, grinding, dosing, packing, water quality and temperature. There is not too much info on steaming or latte art techniques. I might be inclined to spend the extra money and get the DVD if it covers more general stuff, but I'm not sure if it does.

Bottom line, I did learn a ton from it, and my coffee benefited as a result. With that I think it's worth every penny. Get a pound of dolce with your order.
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Postby malachi on Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:13 pm

It's all worth reading.
"Taste is the only morality." -- John Ruskin
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Postby Ken Fox on Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:50 am

I also recommend all of these, especially if you suffer from constipation.

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Postby Peppersass on Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:34 am

Ken Fox wrote:I also recommend all of these, especially if you suffer from constipation.


Um, not with the amount of espresso I've been drinking lately... :D
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Postby Ken Fox on Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:13 am

Peppersass wrote:Um, not with the amount of espresso I've been drinking lately... :D


I guess that my point is that making decent espresso is nowhere near as difficult as it is made out to be, by some. If you are just starting out, there is more material than anyone human could assimilate available on this website. I would argue for a very much simplified technique (which happens to be my technique, so maybe that is why I see it as simple :mrgreen: ). This would be to invest $11 dollars or so in an accurate gram scale, to weigh your doses, to use doses at "lower end" of the N. American range, e.g. what they use in Italy most of the time, e.g. around 14g, and this will reduce channeling and the other sorts of problems that newbies usually face.

If you keep things simple, espresso preparation is not a difficult thing to master, and if you can master making good shots with ~14g doses, you will already be way above the level of most home baristas. At this point you can start experimenting with other approaches such as updosing and many other things that you might require a good textbook to master. But at the start, I'd keep it really simple and not waste any money on textbooks or other materials, until you can get to the point where you can pull a regular, repeatable, decent shot using standard Italian technique.

Once you have the confidence that can only come from a little bit of actual hands on experience, then you can tackle other things. I would not recommend to anyone starting out to muddy the waters by trying to take on too much too soon. Unless you are really committed to making home espresso, the result of trying to do too much initially is that you are likely to give up on the whole thing and to decide that making espresso at home is too messy and too much of a PITA to deserve your efforts.

And that would be a shame.

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Postby malachi on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:06 pm

It's just a matter of what you're interested in - and what you're not interested in.

If you're smart - you'll reduce the aspects you are not interested in to their most simple and consistent and repeatable forms.

So, for example, if you're not interested in Barista Technique - then simplify the technique. Standardize on one dose, one extraction profile, etc etc. This will allow you to experiment with other aspects you are more interested in (like your espresso machine).

Of if you are not interested in the coffee side - standardize on one style of coffee or even one coffee and then experiment with other things (like barista skills).

If you're starting out - it makes sense to standardize on a bunch of things - simplifying down to enable you to experiment with only one thing.

What you choose to simplify and what you choose to leave flexible and experiment with are up to you - and most of us choose to focus on the things that excite us and reduce those of less interest. You just need to make sure you pick the one that works for YOU (rather than following instructions from someone whose interests might not align with yours).

Just my $0.02 worth.
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Postby Peppersass on Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:54 pm

Perhaps I understated where I am in the process.

- Before purchasing my first grinder and espresso machine, I spent countless hours on HB and CG reading -about technique and scouring hardware reviews, and viewed dozens of You-Tube videos of distribution techniques, naked extractions, steaming, latte art, etc. I've probably studied harder than I ever did in school for any particular subject.

- I bought a 0.1 gram scale before my first espresso machine arrived and have weighed every one of the many doses I've prepared over the past couple months. It's time consuming, but I'm not ready to eyeball doses yet, though I may experiment with my new grinder's timed dose feature.

- Mostly due to stuff written by Ken Fox and Jim Schulman, I've focused on pulling 13-14g doses of Terroir SO coffees, and have had good success (so far, I like the Ethiopian Adame Bedane best.) If this is what Ken means by simplifying, I've done plenty of that. But I've also experimented with 14g-21g doses blends like Black Cat, WBC, and Belle, Machristay, partly to explore the different tastes and partly to learn what happens with bigger doses. Yeah, updoses have been harder to handle than 14g doses, but I've been able to dial them in with an appropriate basket and some extra attention to distribution. So far, I'm not a huge fan of ristretto triples prepared with these blends. Too intense, too dense and bit too much caffeine for me. In fact, yesterday I pulled a yummy 17g shot of Belle that was the best shot of a blend I've pulled yet. Who knows? Maybe I can down dose these monsters even more. Heather Perry may like pulling 25g-28g of this stuff, but I'm not going in that direction.

- It took a while, but I got to the point where I could pull a good 14g shot with a PID Silvia and Macap M4 (updosing wasn't particularly successful with that combination.) Then I saw the clearance prices on GS/3s and went slightly insane. Not long after, I brought in a Baratza Vario, which better matches my single-shot prep style, frequent change of coffees and represents an improvement in both grind quality (no WDT) and taste (as baffling as that may be for such a diminutive grinder.) This combination is much easier to work with, especially for experimenting with updosing. I'm sure I spend way more time dialing in shots than the experts, but once dialed in, the shots are generally good to very good to occasionally excellent (plus sink shots when I screw up.) The Vario is too new to be certain about day-to-day consistency, but it's certainly consistent on any given day. My own consistency is a work in progress, but there's been real improvement since the beginning.

- Let me hasten to add that I'm not a cupper. So far, I don't know whether I'm really capable of distinguishing a bouquet of flavors in the cup. I'm mainly at the level of "(really) good or (really) bad", "rounded", "mellow", "laid back", "smooth", "intense", "in your face", and "bleach", "nutty", "chocolate (sort of)", "bright (acidic)", "bland", etc., as well as the usual bitter or sour due to extraction problems. I think with more practice and tasting I may get to a somewhat deeper level with flavor. But judging from my experience with wine, it probably won't be at the individual component level. I tell a great wine from a good wine from a mediocre wine from a bad wine. I can taste the tobacco flavor in a Chateau Margaux (probably because it's so overpowering.) I know when a wine is fruity, but I can't tell you if it's black currants or blackberries or strawberries. Maybe I could learn to do that, but it's not my style. I'm mainly in it for the "Ahhh" moment.

To summarize, I'm not an expert by any means, and have many years and shots to pull before I could be called experienced, but I'm well on the way. As Ken says, it's not rocket science -- especially after the first few days and weeks of frustration. I avoided a lot of problems by starting with a decent grinder, weighing my doses, and using a naked PF to learn about grind, dose and distribution. I'm fortunate that the machines I have now are simplifying the process even more. I'm not a cupper and probably never will be. I'm looking to make a good cup out of any good quality coffee I choose, but I'm not looking to bring out a particular flavor that a particular coffee is supposed to have (at least, I'm not there yet.)

I asked about the books because I'm interested in learning as much as I can about making great espresso, not to learn the basics. I was just curious about the value of the published material. In particular, I had read some of the things Jim pointed out about the Schomer material, and specifically wondered whether the DVDs would be worth their very high price. Evidently not. I haven't received the Rao book yet, but the Illy book has arrived and looks like it will make a nice addition to my library (and may take a few trips with me to the WC :lol: )
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Postby Ken Fox on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:20 pm

Dick,

Sounds like you have made the most of your time with this little hobby.

If I want a book, I just buy it, and I don't force myself to read it if I get bored with it or find something else I'd rather do. That's what coffee tables are for :mrgreen:

I'm much more interested in certain tangential aspects of espresso than I am in the overall process or than I am with nuances such as latte art. I don't think that any of the books out there really address my own personal interests, which is why I haven't bought them (with the exception of Schomer's book which I bought eons ago, and which I hated).

Good luck. You are going to bury me with your knowledge in very short order!

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