Trying to perfect my Rosetta. Feel like my leaves don't have enough definition and is the pointy tip due to pulling back too quickly? Would more wrist action help my design?

Shots I pulled tonight


Note: Disregard the foam and colors as some cups have been sitting for awhile. Machine is a single head only...for now

First question, what kind of milk are you using? If it's skim or low fat, it's going to be more difficult to obtain definition in the leaves.

Let's assume you're using good, high quality whole(preferably organic) milk. If you don't have a good local source, I recommend Horizon's Organic Whole with DHA. Your machine is certainly a capable steamer. From looking at the picture, it seems like your milk isn't mixed well enough, thus resulting in greater separation in the pitcher as you pour.

Do get your air added in at the beginning, but try not to exceed the half way mark of the steaming time. Once you've finished your stretching, don't sink the wand too far down. Just another half inch to inch and spin/mix the milk. Spinning and tip height is key here. This method will help incorporate a more consistent milk in the pitcher but don't let the milk sit there for more than 5 seconds or it will start to separate again. The texture should have a nice sheen to it and no visible bubbles. It really should look like wet paint. Also, you need to have a little bit of milk left over in the pitcher so you don't have a foam blob as you're trying to pull the line through.

Let me know if that helps.

Nuprin wrote:First question, what kind of milk are you using? If it's skim or low fat, it's going to be more difficult to obtain definition in the leaves.

I am using whole milk from AltaDena, like the taste of it and doesn't break my budget. I go through about 2-3gallons per week nowadays. Some sink and some devoured

Nuprin wrote: Let's assume you're using good, high quality whole(preferably organic) milk. If you don't have a good local source, I recommend Horizon's Organic Whole with DHA. Your machine is certainly a capable steamer. From looking at the picture, it seems like your milk isn't mixed well enough, thus resulting in greater separation in the pitcher as you pour.

I have tried steaming first, then pulling the shot. That way, the milk sits for about 20-30 seconds and always whirl the pitcher before pouring and while pulling the shot. Or at times I pull the shot then steam the milk and repeat the steps above without having the milk sitting 20-30 seconds. Have not notice a significant difference between the two.

Nuprin wrote: Do get your air added in at the beginning, but try not to exceed the half way mark of the steaming time. Once you've finished your stretching, don't sink the wand too far down. Just another half inch to inch and spin/mix the milk. Spinning and tip height is key here. This method will help incorporate a more consistent milk in the pitcher but don't let the milk sit there for more than 5 seconds or it will start to separate again. The texture should have a nice sheen to it and no visible bubbles. It really should look like wet paint. Also, you need to have a little bit of milk left over in the pitcher so you don't have a foam blob as you're trying to pull the line through.

Let me know if that helps.

These cups I'm pouring in are 6 ounces. My frothing pitcher is 12ozs and when the pour is complete, I tend to have little to no milk left over, sometimes even short of filling the cup to the brim.

I will try a few more shots with attention to swirling the milk while steaming, and with adding more milk to the pitcher.


Photo attached is a shot I pulled tonight. Compare to the others, this pour was a lot slower, less stretch on the milk and I waited a bit longer (fill the cup a bit more) before I started to etch the milk.

Still a lot of room for improvement and appreciate your reply. Will post back tomorrow following your tips.

I think you nailed the pour, you just need to work on the microfoam to make it less foamy, you're very close, IMHO. Stretch less, just a bit less and repeat the same pour, it will become more defined.

Do you have any round cups? I am glad I did not have to learn to pour latte art using octagonal cups.

The shape and size of the cups do make a difference. A shallow, wider cup is easier to pour latte art than a deeper cup usually for me. I get better results with round bottom cups instead of a flat bottom.

With all this said, it's still very difficult to get perfect milk and perfect pours everytime. I'll make 10 or 20 pours a day at my shop and might get 5 really good ones, 10 good ones, and 5 OK ones. It's challenging for a home barista who typically doesn't make more than 2 in a row on an average day.

tamarian wrote:I think you nailed the pour, you just need to work on the microfoam to make it less foamy, you're very close, IMHO. Stretch less, just a bit less and repeat the same pour, it will become more defined.

Thank you, I will give that a try.

Bob_McBob wrote:Do you have any round cups? I am glad I did not have to learn to pour latte art using octagonal cups.

New cups are on the way and should be here Tuesday of next week. ATM, I have these octo 6oz cups that I am using or 5oz ones from Intelligentsia. The 5oz ones are even harder to work with as they narrower in comparison to the 6oz.

Nuprin wrote:The shape and size of the cups do make a difference. A shallow, wider cup is easier to pour latte art than a deeper cup usually for me. I get better results with round bottom cups instead of a flat bottom.

With all this said, it's still very difficult to get perfect milk and perfect pours everytime. I'll make 10 or 20 pours a day at my shop and might get 5 really good ones, 10 good ones, and 5 OK ones. It's challenging for a home barista who typically doesn't make more than 2 in a row on an average day.

Taking your last advice to use more milk in the pitcher and stretch less, this is my result from earlier today:


Since the base of the Rosetta are blending into the leaves, am I pouring too fast, too close, other?

Thanks for all the great tips... hope I can pull this off soon

Your pour technique seems pretty solid IMO. The only thing that I see could get better is the microfoam quality. If you look at the youtube videos especially those sick looking latte pouring, their milk texture looked like heavy cream, whether it's inside the pitcher or after poured in the cup, and there is no grainy bubbles to naked eye. Just plain creamy with no sign of bubbles at all.

As others have said, foam quality could be better. However, it looks to my (semi-trained) eye that your steam may be a bit wet. Either that or cheap milk? I haven't heard of Altadena. Try something organic?

Also, it looks like you don't have enough milk left in the pitcher to really 'follow-through" with the end of the poor, hence the anemic looking stem. You don't want to 'draw' the stem on top of the leaves, you want to pull the leaves down and together using a thicker stream of milk from a higher height. To get better symmetry, loosen up your wrist and 'swing' lightly as opposed to 'drawing'. That's what works for me anyway. I find my best pours happen when I'm not even paying attention or looking at the cup while I'm at work.

Also, you seem to have some lost leaves that have sort of evaporated out into the cup. Try starting your design a little later in the pour (higher in the cup) so that everything you lay down is part of the final pour. That will help increase contrast and make things look a bit more focused. Here's a pour from this morning and one from work a couple weeks ago. Not perfect but they illustrate what I mean about the stem and lost leaves:





(sorry about pic orientation, this picture uploading is so clunky!)

Just keep practicing on getting the milk texture silky smooth and shiny with no bubbles first, then worry about your latte art later. You'll find pouring is easier and the resulting rosetta is prettier when you have the milk texture correct.

Since you'll have an ounce or two of milk left over, go ahead and taste the milk by itself. It's a great way to gauge your milk texture and sweetness without the espresso.

Don't get frustrated if you're not there in a week or a month. It takes a lot of repetition to be consistent. Also, try a few other whole milk brands. Certain brands can steam better than others.