Obviously taste and preference is subjective, but I am curious to know how many people have pulled very long shots (whether by accident or on purpose) and found the results to be enjoyable.

Every once in a while I do by mistake and I am always surprised how much I enjoy it.

To me, very long is on the order of 45-60 seconds, and usually about 1-1.7oz.

I find these longer extraction times to yield a very clean flavor, although I could see how some might describe it as bland. It definitely tones down some of the more brighter notes, but doesn't necessarily hide them.

The surprise is that I definitely do not get any burnt or bitter flavor, which is what I would have suspected.

I found that it really depends on the coffee,

some may do well as a ristretto as well as at a normal extraction rate(60-70% ratio)

Those kind of shot have big body, big flavors but not very nuance, more simple. While some coffee pulled ristretto will be bland. For me, Ristretto is like drinking a demi-glace, thick and too intense. I rarely found a coffee more enjoyable as a ristretto than a normal rate, but to everyone his preference.

edit:

As for example, Both Black Cat pulled too tight really lose their acidity and flavors(citrus for organic and cherry for classic), becoming very boring, maybe a Brazil factor as they are but heavy in brazil. Same way, a Yirgacheff or kenya may do fine when pulled tight

Yep, really depends on coffee and probably more on taste. I find long shots, for the lack of better description "closed" in flavor. I like to open them up by letting them run faster.

boredatwork wrote:I am curious to know how many people have pulled very long shots (whether by accident or on purpose) and found the results to be enjoyable.

Excuse me, but the terminology you are using is confusing.

A "long" shot or lungo means more water than usual has run through the coffee, increasing the beverage volume. A "short" shot or ristretto means the opposite, less water through the coffee. These definitions make no reference to the shot time in seconds.

To address your point: I believe you're making the observation that your shots are pleasing to you, even though they run for far more time than the oft-quoted 25-30 sec "rule."

I observe this, too. With coffees that are relatively hard to extract (such as Terroir's espresso roasts), my shots frequently include a 15-20 sec preinfusion at line pressure, followed by a 30-35 sec extraction with pump on. Total time 45-55 sec. I had such a shot this morning and it had subtle flowery aromatics as well as a completely delicious candied orange base. It was well balanced to my palate, quite sweet with only subtle sours and bitters.

Shot parameters were: Terroir Matalapa Espresso well rested, dose 17.2g, espresso 41.3g, espresso brew ratio 42%, total dissolved solids 8.2%, extraction yield 19.7%, extraction time including preinfusion ~55sec.

This shot was "long" both in the lungo sense and in timing.

I have to admit that all of my favorite shots seem to run longer than the traditional recommendation.

Its not my terminology that is confusing, its just me. (Case in point.)

But yes, when I say a "long" shot I am referring to long in terms of time, not long in terms of volume. However, when stated like that, even though I am aware of the standard definition, I feel like I have a less confusing usage of the word. But it was not my intent to redefine/confuse terms - I just wasn't thinking about it.

I guess the most surprising point is that it tasted a lot different than I would have expected it to taste. For whatever reason, probably reading too much on the internet, I would have said that an extraction that was close to a minute in length would taste overly bitter and burnt. But in fact it has this weird effect of muting flavors.

boredatwork wrote:...I would have said that an extraction that was close to a minute in length would taste overly bitter and burnt. But in fact it has this weird effect of muting flavors.

There is no obvious reason why a long (duration) pour should taste bitter and burnt, unless there is a rise in brew temperature during the extraction. That seems more likely with an HX than your PID-controlled DB machine.

I cannot pull extreme ristrettos like that. My A3 has a very flat brew profile at normal extraction rates but at around 27 seconds I will start to get a tenth or two degree rise in the temperature but after 30 seconds it starts to ramp up. At 60 seconds I would be at least 1.5 if not 2 degrees hotter than I started. So in addition to the coffee you are using, some kit will have a very dramatic impact on the shot length.

I still completely consider all of what I 'know' and have read over the last 2-3 years with respect to, what it essentially boils down to is, attaining the ever elusive GOD SHOT.

As Stephen points out, correctly, understanding your kit is paramount to you attaining confidence in playing around with stated parameters.

Having a solid and fundamental understanding is critical to your ability to 'play' with parameters. Understanding how the change in parameters will affect the product is also critical.

To stop pulling shots that are consistently tasty to you because of something that is misaligned with the dogmatic passages found in these threads is not beneficial to you.

Several members have posted 'new' ways to flush an HX machine, none of them are wrong, the variance comes from the kit. It's right if you can repeat the process and achieve consistency and you're ultimately satisfied with your espresso.

I like long pulls. I mostly like 'muted' flavours in my cup. I love chocolate and coffee, what can I say. You'd probably guess what I like from an espresso if you knew that I also tend not to like espresso from blends that are 'NEW' and different. I can be stubborn with my perception and expectations. But, it doesn't mean I don't play around and have fun with extractions even though I know, usually, how to attain what I'll like from the blend.