Ilya, I watched your video a few times... I am not convinced you have a problem. Puckology is generally considered to be only slightly more useful than reading tea leaves. The assumption that because a section of your spent puck is drier than the other portions of the puck assumes that, therefore, it was never exposed to water and extracted, seems rather shaky to me. However, your shot video does show a poor side seal and also an extraction that begins radially and comes in. To me, that hint's that the center of your puck probably is denser than the outer edges, and is tending to extract less. This will get you a mix of over- and under-extraction in your cup, and may lead to an edgy cup. Center channeling and radial channeling can be tough to identify, because it's hidden for all but the beginning of the pour, but I think the beginning provides some hints.

I've had issues like that before, and a couple of things have worked nicely. First, rather than rotating your basket as you dose, try moving it in a circle--i.e., no rotation, dose once into the north side, then northwest, then west, southwest, etc. That's what I'd do if I didn't want to WDT. Since you do, it's kind of a moot point, and I'd suggest that you may be using the needle to push the coffee more to the center than the edges--This seems particularly likely since you don't use a funnel and you'd probably be less likely to properly push the coffee to the edges without it, since you'd likely knock a lot more over the edge. If you're going to WDT, which really ought to be an unnecessary step for your grinder, I'd try stirring such that you push more coffee out to the edges and leave more of a dimple in the center, and see if that helps.

The other thing to try is nutating. Either way, from where I'm sitting, that's the only real flaw that I am seeing. It may or may not be related to the flaky pucks with dry centers, but I'd be looking to fix that if I were seeing what I do and my shots sucked. Other than that, I'd be trying with a well-known espresso blend that I knew was in its prime, not Ethiopian SOs, and definitely not home-roast.

Marshall wrote:9 times out of 10 it is the barista, or as we sometimes say here "The problem is on the handle side of the portafilter." I would start there before shipping machines around and paying for mechanics.

Agreed and you are right it should be in that order. The OP seemed pretty well convinced that there was a machine problem which was the only reason I suggested the sequence that I did.

I am still a newbie, and have very different equipment from you (Gaggia New Baby). However, when I was having trouble about a month ago, and was getting a similar spent puck to you, I discovered that for my machine I was leaving too much headspace. Now I dose much more. 19-21grams. So much that it's often difficult to lock in the PF. The result, however, has been a much better shot. It doesn't go blonde nearly as quickly, and it tastes better.

I can't remember if you've tried updosing or not. As I said, I'm a newbie, so don't just go on my advice.

Marshall wrote:Ask your favorite barista if he/she will moonlight for training at home. Some do.

I'd be surprised if most barista wouldn't jump at an offer of a C Note to spend a few hours some afternoon or evening helping you out. Ok, maybe some of the best with competition wins under their belt might want more.

Well I am going to keep trying with this coffee and give it some rest like you guys suggested.
Also going to build the PF pressure gauge sometime soon to help check the machine one

If anyone has any tips I will be glad to try them out!

What happens if you use the single basket? A triple?

Marshall wrote:Dear Mr. Godly,

You live in NYC. There is no need to rely on remote advice, when personal training is so readily available to you (and so much more effective). Here is Intelligentsia's. Other roasters may have similar programs in New York.

http://www.intelligentsiacoffee.com/store/product/id/2052

For L.A. area readers, Chuck Jones offers a very nice bring-your-own-machine training class in Pasadena at his roastery.

http://www.thebestcoffee.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=95&products_id=769

Does Intelligentsia have the same type of training class in Chicago?

Follow-on discussion split to Eliminating needle flutter of DIY portafilter pressure gauges.

So I built the PF pressure gauge and surprisingly the stock gauge was pretty much spot on.

I set it to 130 psi at the puck and left it at that.

I have been getting much better results grinding coarser and tamping harder...

still not as good as I would hope, but definitely better than before.

I am also going to be converting the brewtus to a rotary pump, so hopefully that will improve whats in the cup as well.

Interestingly, if I just pull a blank shot of water and let it cool, it doesn't taste very good... in fact it is metallic and kind of harsh tasting... that could also be another factor giving the espresso shots a poor taste.

godlyone wrote:I am also going to be converting the brewtus to a rotary pump, so hopefully that will improve whats in the cup as well.

Nope. You'll just get a faster pressure ramp-up (less "forgiving" of your errors, though it won't make much difference on an E61 group). All the other benefits of a rotary pump are essentially quiet operation and higher flowrate (if you had a multigroup machine or you pull water from the tap a lot).

Interestingly, if I just pull a blank shot of water and let it cool, it doesn't taste very good... in fact it is metallic and kind of harsh tasting... that could also be another factor giving the espresso shots a poor taste.

That's definitely a problem--there's a lot more water than coffee in a shot of espresso, and putting bad water in and expecting the coffee to cover it does not make a lot of sense in my experience. How is your water reservoir hygiene?

shadowfax wrote:That's definitely a problem--there's a lot more water than coffee in a shot of espresso, and putting bad water in and expecting the coffee to cover it does not make a lot of sense in my experience. How is your water reservoir hygiene?

Holy swamp water Batman! Not just reservoir hygience but what about the water going into the reservoir! How could this thread go 4 pages and just now question the water quality of off tasting shots! We (me included) be slipping getting side tracked in puckology and stuff instead of checking the basics first.

Might be worth getting one of the botled waters recommended on this site, draining the boiler and filling with bottled water. That assumes, of course, that there is no fundamental deterioration in your boiler itself from minerals or milk.

hperry wrote:Might be worth getting one of the botled waters recommended on this site, draining the boiler and filling with bottled water. That assumes, of course, that there is no fundamental deterioration in your boiler itself from minerals or milk.

Indeed if it's a water issue the question becomes is it the A) water going into the reservoir B) the reservoir tainting the water C) the brew boiler tainting the water.

I'd start with verifying the quality of the water, thorough cleaning of the reservoir, and descaling the brew boiler. (Don't see how milk could get into brew boiler on a Brute.) Don't know if it could simply be not enough use and water sitting too long in boiler. Don't think that's been a reported problem from Brute users though may be mistaken. I know it's been talked about as a theoretical issue, just don't recall it ever actually being an issue.

miKe mcKoffee wrote:How could this thread go 4 pages and just now question the water quality of off tasting shots!

True story I admit I did not think of it either.

Well the water going in is from a 2 stage carbon filter, and the brewtus has its own water softener on the intake line..

Descaling with the vibe pump will take forever so after the rotary pump install, going to do a full fledged descaling

miKe mcKoffee wrote:Holy swamp water Batman! Not just reservoir hygience but what about the water going into the reservoir! How could this thread go 4 pages and just now question the water quality of off tasting shots! We (me included) be slipping getting side tracked in puckology and stuff instead of checking the basics first.

Your point is well taken Mike but I suspect we all assumed that good quality water was a given. Every single FAQ and newbie's thread I've ever seen has at least some mention that you need good quality water for good espresso. But like network troubleshooting - whcih I know something about - one must start at the physical layer before moving on to more complex variables.

miKe mcKoffee wrote:Indeed if it's a water issue the question becomes is it the A) water going into the reservoir B) the reservoir tainting the water C) the brew boiler tainting the water.

I'd start with verifying the quality of the water, thorough cleaning of the reservoir, and descaling the brew boiler.

I like the sequence. The only reason for trying the water first is that it is pretty easy to do.

I just came to the computer from my machine, tested some things out. We have a similar setup, a mazzer and a vibe pump e-61.. but its not the same stuff.. and im no pro.. so take it for what its worth..

I find I'm able to be more consistent with a heavier tamp, so my grind is set to allow a 40ishLB Tamp.. With a couple different doses, I found the following..

First the setup:
Anita
M Major
Ridgleless double basket, LM style from EPNW, dosed IN the portafilter
Convex tamper
Boiler set at 1.1Max, Brew set at 9.5 on machines gauge.
Coffee is Counter Culture Rustico

With a 14 gr dose- Had a hard time getting a good shot here.. not enough coffee was my diagnoses
w/ a 15-gr dose- Similar to the 14.. not enough coffee to fully expand to the screen.
---Had very soupy pucks on both of these doses--- Had some channeling.. but mostly donut extractions with some squirts

Now here is where it gets weird....

16gr dose- Had a good extraction, no donuts, and it ran a tad longer then yours in the video. There was some pretty noticeable movement, or 'dancing' of the cone, leading me to believe, channels were a' lurkin.
---But the puck.. Looked almost identical to your picture. If this thread didn't exist, I would suspect lateral channeling---

17gr dose- A better shot then 16, blonded later then the 16. No channels, no donuts. A nice shot

18gr dose- too much coffee. Short of being 100% positive, I believe the puck cracked on the screen, which led to the massive channeling and squirting all over the back of my machine.

Conclusion- 17grs was the best dose for today with the Rustico.. Nothing new, 17 is what Ive used for Espresso Rustico whenever Ive had it.

But the thing I found most odd.. was at 16grs, I got a puck looking exactly like the picture.. an extraction that was pretty decent, with the only sign of channeling being a dancing cone. AND.. Out of all the shots I pulled(minus the 14/15gr shots) it was easily the one with most 'harsh' taste... I didn't think it was terrible, but If I was making my morning shots, I would have tried again.

So... couple things. I say try a heavier dose.. Pretty much every coffee I can get 17.5 grams in the basket, being careful to lock it in. Also, maybe try a different basket.. When I switched to the LM style, double ridgeless, I noticed easier consistency in my shots. And lastly, I would stay away from the SO's if you are finding a harsh taste. SO shots can be some of the hardest shots to pull.. Ive gone through two pounds of a kenya before I realized its potential as a shot. I would highly suggest some "signature" blends from roasters.. Like Toscano from CCC, Belle from Klatch, Ambrosia from Fresco, Black Cat from Intelly.

The recent 'discovery' of a possible water problem is DEFINATLY something to look into. Espresso is made from two things. And there is more water the coffee in the cup. Try a simple test... Take some of the same water you put in the machine.. and put it in a pot and bring it to a boil..let it cool, and taste it. that might give you some insight as to whether or not the machine is tainting the water, or its the water itself.

Also.. Gorilla coffee, per the website, is a darker roasted coffee. They boast about being a BOLD coffee. This can be good or bad, but if you are finding it harsh, try something lighter. Toscano and Belle are both pretty sweet, and forgiving.

Lastly, I know how frustrating it can be to have all this money into a hobby, all this knowledge available.. but when your at the group, the shots dont taste how you want them too. Its okay.. at the end of the day, it IS just coffee, and certainly not the end of the world. With that said.. Try a larger dose, stay away from the pickier SO shots and pull with sweeter, lighter blends, test our your water as I suggested, and most importantly.. Dont give up. You have a great setup, and certainly the potential to create amazing espresso... It WILL happen.

Good luck my friend.. I hope what I have said helps you, or at the very least, someone, in some way. Enjoy the day, enjoy the people, and enjoy the coffee.


Jman

Let me just add again here...

Drinking an Americano right now, made with CCC Toscano. used the basket which came with Anita, which is a 14gr, ridged.

16g Dose.

The shot pulled beautiful, and this americano tastes wonderful.

The puck however.. was an EXACT REPRESENTATION of the what you have happening to you.

Which means two things. Either, it doesnt at all matter, as this shot is rich and smooth.. or my palate is completely off, which, without being pompous.. I seriously doubt. If my palate is off, my Chef wont be too happy with tonights special lol.

I think your problem is stemming from the water, and/or the coffee. Of course, try a different dose and see what happens, but i dont think the puck being "halved" like that is a big problem, or a problem at all.

Jman