Yes, 8 seconds would be about what I with them.

My guess is it's too low of a temp that's making your shots taste sour. Simply put, lower = sour, higher = bitter. You want to find the right temp that balances these two flavors to make the coffee shine. Small changes can make a big difference. I have generally stayed within the 198-202 range for all the coffees I've tried.

Thanks for the ideas, it's true my temp stability is not the greatest. I flush 3 times after the machine has been on about an hour. This brings each consecutive flush (following boiler cycle) from about 1) 168 2)180 3) 195 and then on the fourth one I pull the first shot and it hits about 205 at the start and then starts dropping off.

I'm not really sure if I have reached grouphead thermal stability because the more shots I do with pauses of about 4 minutes or so in between (and a boiler cycle) the temp seems to climb higher and higher until the shot is starting at about 209 or sometimes even a bit higher.

Would be interested in someone else's (with a single boiler E61) routine.

Thanks again guys. Still confused by the night and day difference in the VST to Rancilio basket...

I raised the temp as small of an increment up as I could, now shots are pulling (showing closer to 208) which I assume is about 205 at the puck. Seems difficult to get it to 200 exactly at the moment. Maybe I need to flush a bit before pulling the shot (after boiler cycle?)

Also I experimented with the triple Rancilio basket at 22grams (the headroom nickel dime test seemed to suggest) and the VST basket at 15grams.

Pours were still much nicer looking with the triple with more tiger striping, consistency from the start until the end. The VST starts nicely then blonds quickly and speeds up quite a lot, with no obvious signs of channeling or dead spots.

The thing I notice is that the mouthfeel from the triple basket is night and day much thicker and better vs the VST basket. Both baskets are giving me a 50% BR. I assume the difference is because the triple basket is extracting to a much higher percentage? (ie more tiger striping, sweeter, less thin and watery than VST) ?? Still assuming this has nothing to do with dose but everything to do with the basket...

Thanks

Mike. Just curious now how far post roast are your beans?

My opinion, for what it's worth, would be to try and really limit your variables right now. Meaning pick one basket, one prep method and one dose..etc. this is the only way to get consistent. I would suggest the stock basket with a 16-17 gram dose or the VST with a 15g dose (if it's a 15g VST).

I've used both of those on my alexia and have had good results. The VST is definitely less forgiving!

THEN once you have stuck with that routine for a bit post a video of your process.

Hi Mike,

I just got a used Alexia (no pid) a month ago. After using a Rancilio Silvia for 12 years, I am overjoyed with the results from the Alexia. Thanks to HB I started getting serious about my technique or lack thereof. I use a Rocky, but found I had been grinding too coarse and tamping too hard. I got an Espro calibrated tamper, a vst 20 gram basket with bottomless PF, and started reading on this site and David Schomer's book. I was having some sour tasting shots and pulled off the cover to check the thermostat. It was in the low 90's c. I raised that up to about 103 accounting for 10 degrees less at the puck. Things got better. I was using a SO Brazilian fromParadise roasters. Still was a little sour from time to time. A few days ago I got an espresso blend from Chris Coffee... Black Pearl I think. Now I'm getting consistently thick 28-30 sec shots that are rich chocolate goodness no matter when I pull them in the cycle. I use about 17 gm in the vst using the WDT method. I ALWAYS warm up the machine for at least 60 minutes before use and all is well. Love this Alexia! I just do espresso - no milk drinks. Hope this helps in some way. Dennis in Connecticut.

Thanks Dennis,
I just pm'd some of this to Ryan but I'll post it here as I think it's relevant for anyone searching this thread at a later date.

Fwd: Also due to not having a PID, I find the machine, after a bunch of shots in a row, will idle at a temp of maybe 198F, then go up to 211 max during a water run. But if I leave the machine for a while, that will drop off to 180 or lower at the grouphead thermometer. Seems to need a good flush to wake it up (as review by Jeff Sawdy stated).

I think my problem was that with my long flushes I was actually flushing cold water through the group head which was upsetting the idle temp, or stable temp of the grouphead. He was recommending 3 ounces at times. Now, I stop flushing as soon as I see grouphead thermometer temp start to drop at all. Shorter flushes seem to be getting me within 10 degrees between idle and pull (no coffee).

I found this old video by Dan Kehn that showed an almost 10 degree difference in the thermofilter and grouphead thermometer. If this is the case, when my machine was showing barely 200 at the grouphead thermometer, the puck could have only been around 190 or less which would be causing sour shots. Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RsusIrTZik

Thanks
Mike

As per advice here on the forum, I finished building and checking calibration of a DIY thermofilter this morning. After allowing machine more than one hour warm-up, I filmed a short video which shows an almost 13 degree F offset between grouphead thermometer and temperature at the puck. I started filming immediately following a boiler cycle and thermofilter was checked with a pot of boiling water, taking into account altitude. Thermocouple seemed to read within one degree of expected.

(link removed)

Hopefully the link will work...

Thoughts?
Thanks again

mikesnow wrote:As per advice here on the forum, I finished building and checking calibration of a DIY thermofilter this morning. After allowing machine more than one hour warm-up, I filmed a short video which shows an almost 13 degree F offset between grouphead thermometer and temperature at the puck. I started filming immediately following a boiler cycle and thermofilter was checked with a pot of boiling water, taking into account altitude. Thermocouple seemed to read within one degree of expected.

https://goo.gl/photos/rQHX15Totp7xaQxA6

Hopefully the link will work...

Thoughts?
Thanks again

Was the portafilter in with the thermofilter locked in during warm up? You would expect it to vary by more like 3-5F. Just curious, have you also tested the group thermo? You can do that with with a steaming pot of water, there are directions from EricS somewhere.

On a side note, it looks like your brew temps could be close though. If there really is a 13 offset rather than 5 or so, your idle temp should be more like 205-206 rather than 197-198......

Portafilter was warmed up. Have not checked the e61 thermometer, yet...