So, as I continue my quest for making a decent shot I have a question about aftertaste.

My setup:

16.5g of Red Bird
Water temp around 192-197F (using a mediocre temp testing process, so probably slightly higher)
Pressure 12Bar (next step is to get a OPV or expansion valve)
Grinder: Preciso - finger press testing for grind coarseness
Puck: using the metal rod stir method with plastic cup
Tamp: ~30lbs

Shot pulls just under 2oz in 30secs (from first sign of espresso). It is still inconsistent in that it gushes/turns blonde too quick. Problem is it's also inconsistent in how/when it does, so I haven't been able to fix that. Working on it.

So... I'm getting slightly better shots. They still are very dark with huge amounts of blonde crema. And sometimes test better then others, but there is this awful after taste that develops about 10 minutes after drinking and persists in my mouth and on my lips for hours.

Tastes like I ate the used puck. Stale, bitter, chalky taste. Just down right gross. This is for ALL types of espresso I have used. I am just now trying Red Bird, and I am sure it's not the coffee.

Is is possible that i am getting super fine coffee grinds? I have noticed a few little grinds in there, but wondering if there is some kind of dust that is passing through. Would that cause this terrible aftertaste? Just so odd that it comes on so long afterwards.

The grinder is only a few months old - and it was a refurb from Barazta (actually the 2nd refurb as the first was DOA). I can not afford a Vario. Just not an option....

One day I will only be posting about how good my espresso is... I promise!

It's the hard thing about espresso. The entry fee isn't cheap. Your grinder is not up to the task of espresso grinding. Your machine is probably trailing behind as well.

ok, well then i just give up.

Have you had a shot from a café that bothered you or is the problem just pertinent to your machine? Have you tasted just the water coming from your group? I think most people have a few fines in their cup to varying degrees. I always have a few and doesn't bother me. Sounds like something needs cleaning to me. Odd indeed.

The Preciso is an "adequate" grinder. The Ascaso Duo is (by reputation) an "adequate" machine. Neither is good, neither is inadequate. You'll never be able to pull consistently excellent shots, but once you've figured out some technique, you should be able to pull consistently (wait for it) adequate shots.

Diagnosing problems is mostly a matter of eliminating variables. Because you're new at the game, doing that is complicated for you and for we who want to help but can't watch you work or taste your coffee.

Offhand, it sounds like you may have a "taint" in your machine or grinder which requires cleaning; be brewing too hot; pulling with too much pressure; grinding too fine; and/or have channeling issues; singly or in combination.

Rich

ben8jam,

Don't let anyone discourage you. Rather than being curt & unhelpful (and telling you something you probably already know), I think we here should try a bit harder to help you out -- even if it is true your equipment could be better. But it's what you have NOW and it's ALL you have to work with, so getting better equipment NOW ain't gonna happen. Let's work with that...

I hope someone who knows something about what you DO have (and also all you have to work with presently) can diagnose your issue. I get the feeling, however, that this situation requires someone knowledgeable to come over to your place and see exactly what you and your machine are doing in order to diagnose the problem(s). I find it hard to believe you're getting such crappy coffee from your equipment, meaning, not that you are NOT getting it, but rather that's all your equipment is ABLE to produce: Crappy-tasting coffee. I don't believe THAT for a second...

And I speak from personal experience: When I first started MY "quest" for espresso and got my first "espresso machine" (yes, I was just a bit more ignorant than I am now) -- a Mr. Coffee ECM20 (!) -- even though it was a "steam espresso" machine and wasn't making real espresso, the coffee tasted good and I used that machine for about 3 years (until I got a Rancilio Silvia). The ECM20's "espresso" (AKA: Just Coffee) tasted NOTHING like you describe yours as tasting. It NEVER made "crappy tasting coffee." Did it make REAL espresso (despite its name)? No. Did it make good-tasting coffee? Yes. And the ECM20 was a $40 machine! Who had "crappier espresso equipment" than I did?

So if a cheap steam "espresso" machine can produce drinkable coffee -- yet yours does not -- then something clearly is wrong.

Still, however, I think someone needs to make an "emergency house call" to find out what's up over @ your house...I'm not cure we can figure-out what the problem(s) is/are --whether it's your equipment, Operator Error, or both. While it's true there are a number of variables to making good espresso, in reality there aren't THAT many of them. And while there IS a learning curve, it's not TOO steep.

Do you know anyone locally who could help you out?

Know any local Baristas?

But don't give up...even if (for whatever reason) you end up throwing in the towel NOW, you can always save up and get a better -- but still less-expensive entry-level machine/grinder later on -- and try again.

Good luck,

-- BR

BillRedding wrote:ben8jam,

Don't let anyone discourage you. Rather than being curt & unhelpful (and telling you something you probably already know), I think we here should try a bit harder to help you out -- even if it is true your equipment could be better.

-- BR

I'm not trying to be curt or unhelpful. Entry level gear has a much tighter margin of accuracy. Someone can beat their head into the wall with frustration and waste an expensive amount of coffee trying to hit a small target. It's like a sniper using a shotgun at a distance. Good luck.

It's up to the OP to decide if he's going to continue on, and that motivation will come from him, not from a reality check from someone else.

TomC wrote:Your grinder is not up to the task of espresso grinding.

TomC wrote:Entry level gear has a much tighter margin of accuracy.

In the buying advice video, I recommended the Baratza Preciso as the minimum entry-level espresso grinder. It's true that the next step up is a big one, but I agree with Rich's comments and others who characterize the Preciso as adequate. Once you take price into consideration, it's an easy recommendation for those on a tight budget.

I did experience something similar, but am not 100% sure if we're describing the same thing. For me the shot itself was enjoyable, but for some reason after 5-10 minute mark, the aftertaste gradually became nasty.

How long have you had this problem, or when did that start happening? Assuming it's not from contaminated machine or gross overextraction, it's worth looking into the water that you're using(or at least that was what I suspected). For me it happened when I moved from a country to another. I don't have that problem now(moved to another country yet again ) but I could never pinpoint it was exactly the water(during that 'problematic' time, I've changed multiple coffee beans, grinders, and even machines, still have that weird aftertaste).

This may not be relevant for you but is based in my recent and somewhat similar experience. i was not able to get good consistent extractions until i discovered how important keeping everything perfectly level is. If anything is at all out of level then water flow will be affected and ruin almost every shot in one way or another.

Just to eliminate this:
1. Get a small magnetic level and check the group in a variety of diameters to ensure it is level.

2. Check your tamping surface. If the counter or whatever else is slightly off level. Bam, major problem.

3. Check your portafilter on your tamping surface without and with the basket. Do this without applying pressure and then with applying pressure.

4. Determine a way to make sure that when tamping you apply level pressure. Small tampers, poor hack job naked portafilters like mine, or just canting the portafilter while tamping level, etc can all make significant problems in my experience.

To solve these problems i found a sturdy shadow box at good will, took a hole saw and made a hole for my basket. I drop the basket (after wdt) so the rim hits the perfectly level shadow box hole and creates a level compression. I then tamp with the basket in the shadow box which has yielded perfect extraction flows every shot since i started it last week...

I think part of the advantage of better technology is legitimate control and consistency, the other is ease of use. Would be great to have a Richard penny naked portafilter and proper tamping stand. But we can find ways to make do, it just requires a methodical analysis of what is or may be affecting our results and the refusal to give in, searching until we find a solution we can manage. 50% of the fun anyway:)