Portafilter - off or on when idle?

#1: Post by **PH26** » February 20th, 2012, 6:29 pm

Is it recommended to keep the portafilter locked into the grouphead when the machine is idle (for E61 machine)?

Thanks.

#2: Post by HB » February 20th, 2012, 6:41 pm

Leave it in. A cold portafilter draws a lot of heat out of the E61 grouphead. For a longer answer, see one of the threads below:

Portafilter: In or out while idle?
Can I leave my portafilter engaged overnight??
Why leave portafilter in grouphead when not in use?
Portafilter cools down

The thread Portafilter cooling down a lot? goes into more details than most would want, including the impact of unheated baskets and coffee grounds:

barry wrote:the basket is insulated from the portafilter by an air gap. the majority of puck heating is radiant heat from the showerscreen. the stainless basket is a relatively poor thermal conductor, and the coffee grounds are even worse thermal conductors.

i've done some datalogging tests with probes at various points within the puck and on the portafilter and basket (8 channels is great for this sort of thing). the top millimeter or so of coffee only reaches 100F after about 60-90 seconds (ballpark, i'm going from memory on this one as i don't have time to look it up). coffee deeper in the puck comes up at an even slower rate. the bottom line is there is usually plenty of time to dose, tamp, and initiate the brew cycle w/o causing undue thermal stress on the grounds.

I found these discussions using one of the forum search tips.

February 20th, 2012, 7:56 pm

Hello Dan -

Thanks so much for the reply and suggestions on how to use the search function.

I read through all the other posts on keeping the portafilter in and that is clearly the recommended way to go.

Do you also leave the baskets in the portafilter all the time while the portafilter is locked in, and then just pop them out for dosing and distributing? or do most people leave the baskets out/portafilters in, and leave the baskets on the cup warmer. Wasnt able to see this in the other posts as they referred to portafilters but did not mention the baskets or possibly I missed it.

Thanks again for the help.

#4: Post by **allon** » February 20th, 2012, 8:06 pm

I keep the basket out of the portafilter but it has nothing to do with thermal issues - I weigh my dose in the basket, then remove the portafilter from the group, start the cooling flush, snap the basket in, tamp, stop the cooling flush, lock the portafilter and pull the shot.

That routine works for me and my machine, your machine may have different needs.

If I had a grinder that dosed accurately, I'd keep it in.

#5: Post by HB » February 20th, 2012, 8:15 pm

I used to remove the portafilter retainer clip so I could drop in the basket after weighing as advocated in Digital espresso or a way to consistency. But I've switched to weighing the whole portafilter and knocking out the puck/wiping the basket clean. I don't think it impacts the temperature either way, as I noted in Does temperature loss from dosing basket outside portafilter matter?

HB wrote:Years ago I did measure the temperature difference between the top and bottom of the puck for hot/cold baskets:

The distance between the lines indicates the cold/hot basket delta; the distance from the 0 axis represents the top/bottom delta. It shows that indeed cold/hot baskets do have a measurable effect on the first seconds of the delta between the top/bottom, but the effect falls below the boiler's natural temperature variance shortly thereafter (measured on a La Marzocco Linea without PID controller). That said, I don't consider the above chart the last word on the matter, as it was hastily created from just a few trials back in 2004 in response to a discussion on CoffeeGeek.

My change in routine was simply to streamline my morning workflow.

#6: Post by **allon** » February 20th, 2012, 8:23 pm

What 0.1g scale do you use that can handle a whole portafilter?
The ones I have are too small to hold a portafilter.

#7: Post by HB » February 20th, 2012, 8:29 pm

I cut two squares of corkboard to use as a platform on this scale, but if I were shopping around for another one, I would go with this scale that Mark recently recommended on CoffeeGeek:

Mark Prince wrote:The scale is small! It fits on almost all espresso machine drip trays, not to mention most other surfaces where you might brew coffee. The weighing pad is small, but big enough for you to delicately balance a portafilter on to zero-out the weight before dosing coffee into the filter basket and re-weighing.

#8: Post by **spiffdude** » February 20th, 2012, 9:26 pm

I also keep my baskets clipped in the portafilter. I just like the feel of having my portafilter and basket as one unit... makes me feel more like a barista!

I've had a few scales similar to the one Dan has provided a link to. Just make sure it can take the weight. Mine goes up to 1000g with a 0.1g precision. It works out well if you are using naked portafilter simply because you can balance them on the scale. If using a portafilter with spouts, then you might need to make a support to hold it up on the scale.

#9: Post by HB » February 22nd, 2012, 10:36 am

Split follow-on discussion to Dose consistency of weighing coffee in basket versus portafilter+basket.

http://users.rcn.com/erics/ · #10: Post by **erics** » February 22nd, 2012, 10:49 am

How do you knock out the puck without dropping the basket?

Very nice baskets for espresso production are inexpensive. Some examples and prices:

Synesso ridgeless double, P/N 1.7000, $6.89, http://www.synesso.com/pdfs/2011%20Acce ... 0parts.pdf
Espresso Resource, 14g ridgeless, P/N 21124, $10.50, http://www.espressoresource.com/index.p ... &Itemid=53
Espresso Parts, HQ 14g ridgeless double, P/N EPMZ_107A, $6.95, http://www.espressoparts.com/EPMZ_107A? ... id=1363354

Having several examples of identical baskets makes multiple drink prep a little easier.

It is very easy to knock out the puck just by holding the basket with your fingertips - that is - after about a 5 minute cooling off period.

It is easier to dose and distribute the coffee in a basket alone vice a basket in a portafilter although obviously, seasoned baristas do a superb job either way.