Brand new Pavoni Pro, first time Lever user. Pulling acceptable tasting shots, but no Crema. Mechanical conditions seem fine, hovering in the .7 to 1.0 range, break the steam valve for a few seconds, pull a blank shot to warm everything from the grouphead to the cup and the basket, up and down the lever a few times and hold it up for 10 to 15 seconds. Approx. 2 level scoops of Illy Fine grind canned, into the double basket tamped @ 30lbs with the 49mm tamp provided for the 51mm basket(I make due for now). Bottom of the cup starts to get a few drops and I bring the lever down steady for 10 or more seconds. End of the shot starts to lighten in color but soon dissipates to just a "Crema Ring" around the perimeter of the espresso.

The obvious question: Can the Pavoni Lever machines produce Crema from a can of pre-ground Illy Fine Grind?

ubitalia wrote:Can the Pavoni Lever machines produce Crema from a can of pre-ground Illy Fine Grind?

No. For that matter, any espresso machine would be crema challenged with preground coffee (short version: preground coffee = stale coffee; longer version: Use preground coffee while saving for an espresso grinder?).

Congrats on the new purchase - I've been testing a LP Pro lately and I've been pulling some great shots. Haven't figured out the steamer yet though!

To answer the question, NO, or at least very probably not.

Search around for some locally-roasted espresso blends, or mail order one. Either way be sure to get the roast date, and use within a month at the very latest. You can also freeze some in an airtight container to keep it fresher:

http://www.home-barista.com/store...ee-in-freezer.html

I've been mail ordering 2 lbs. of beans lately and freezing them on arrival. They'll still produce good crema at one month old.

Read Mark Prince's new article on canned Italian vs. fresh N. American blends:

http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinion...kprince/10-09-2007

PC

ubitalia wrote:The obvious question: Can the Pavoni Lever machines produce Crema from a can of pre-ground Illy Fine Grind?

HB wrote:No. ...

peacecup wrote:... Haven't figured out the steamer yet though!

To answer the question, NO, or at least very probably not....

Easy guys!


I wonder how to NOT get any crema from the preground Illy, my bad i used it over the years before finally investing all i got (20 bucks) in buying a handgrinder

ubitalia, no drops for 10-15 sec seem a bit long, and you shouldnt wait that long with the preinfusion, 6 secs should do. if you get initial crema that quickly vanishes I'd suspect that the water is too hot (you either warm up the head too much initially, or the long preinfusion affects the puck)

how hard do you have to push or pull - I found the Illy grind just right, if i used too much or tamped too hard it would choke the machine.

I dont know about the distribution system of Illy in the US, maybe we are better off in Europe - I used to buy it from supermarkets which i expected would frequently have to restock. I read that test about how quickly preground coffee gets stale - and I agree that it cannot be compared to freshly ground - still I got crema from preground even if it was opened 3-4 weeks earlier.

So, although you should move on to buy a grinder asap my point is that this alone might not solve the problem.




sorry about these pics - I did them for my girlfriend after she bought me a pitcher, to document my inabilities for latte art and give her a good laugh...

which brings us to frothing... there are some threads about it, and it seems a lot easier if you block one hole of the steamtip....

Thanks all!

Sounds like I took the backward approach, but I couldn't get that Pavoni out of my mind. Like anything else, looks are not everything so I will learn by your advice and eventually master this "Animal." I will start saving for that Grinder and also take a few or more seconds off my preinfusion time and let you know. The Illy does pack well and I've reached the "Choke" stage on the Pavoni as well. You possibly are scoring some fresher grounds than we here in the US, purchased at a Kitchen store in the mall so who knows how long that has been around. Took more advice and purchased the Northern Italian Reserve from the article, let's see how that works out. Anyone seen a video on this site of a Pavoni in action?

See the handjive thread for a cheap interim grinder solution (I've been using mine for five years).

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...o-essay-t4482.html

PC

just for my interest: could you have a look at the expiry date - it should be printed on the bottom of the can. I assume (not confirmed) that they allow 2yrs. Usually I had 1 year 11 months left at the time of purchase.


http://www.coffeeforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=2290#2290
this is a good read about Illys CO2 pressurization - and it would be worth opening a thread on opinions about the companies blend and roast, because i get the impression Illy is not much appreciated here. Dont know if thats due to its quality or the fact that they are so widespread or if it is about their philosophy and their restrictive business activities.
Of course there is much more to coffee than just one blend, but -while I find it quite difficult pulling enjoyable results with blends from local roasters - Illy is always a safe bet and has never let me down...

Interestingly, I found that the Pavoni froths better with the three-hole tip entirely submersed in the milk, whereas the Ponte Vecchio four-hole works well when held just at the surface. So far I've found it difficult to do small quantities of milk on the Pavoni, but I seem to be making a little progress.

PC

peacecup wrote:Interestingly, I found that the Pavoni froths better with the three-hole tip entirely submersed in the milk, whereas the Ponte Vecchio four-hole works well when held just at the surface. So far I've found it difficult to do small quantities of milk on the Pavoni, but I seem to be making a little progress.

PC

yes, it has been said before that it seems best to just hold the 3hole tip into the middle of the milk - did you give it a try to block one hole yet? It made frothing easier for me . The two remaining holes are almost level whereas the blocked hole sits a bit higher...

ogatasan wrote:just for my interest: could you have a look at the expiry date - it should be printed on the bottom of the can. I assume (not confirmed) that they allow 2yrs. Usually I had 1 year 11 months left at the time of purchase.

I checked the date and how do you like that, February of 2009. That's not good for Illy!


Now, this is a great little story:


This past Saturday morning I fired up the Pavoni. My choices limited to Segafreddo Beans long expired, year old Starbucks espresso beans hugely over-roasted, the 2009 canned Illy, and canned Lavazza. I've struggled with the Illy and had no luck with the Lavazza, but decided to give Lavazza a second chance. The Pavoni reaches .7 and I tamped the filter knowing the weekend was not going to start out right with this shot. I kid you not just as I put the 2 cup filter ino the filter holder the doorbell rings. I pause while the wife grabs the package and I hear her excitement for a delivery she ordered. Disappointed, I turn to the Pavoni to begin and I hear my wife say, "So we both got packages." Sure enough, there was the Northern Italian Reserve. I emptied the Lavazza grounds from the filter and ground up the Reserve, keep in mind with the incorrect "Blade Type" grinder. To my surprise, I choked the machine. Tamped less the second time around and out came a beautiful shot with the long awaited "Crema." Wow! And a great weekend it was.