Since returning from my last visit to NYC, I've been experimenting with an abrupt change in distribution technique.

I watched the baristas at Ninth Street and Gimme pull great shots after no leveling of the coffee. They simply tamped the mounded coffee just as it came from the doser. No tapping, no Stockfleth, no Chicago chop, no nuttin'. Just grind, thwack, and tamp the mounded pile of coffee.

When I returned home I tried this with my SJ (Shnozzola(TM) installed). Grind, thwack, and try and keep the mound centered. Then tamp the mounded surface, forcing the coffee to distribute out to the edges under the pressure of tamping.

I am getting excellent bottomless PF shots this way, with virtually no channeling, and apparently without the doughnut extraction I expected. In fact, I'm pretty sure I am getting better tasting shots doing this than when leveling off.

Anyone else made this "discovery?"

Jim

That seems to be the case with good grinders. It helps even more if you center a perfect mountain in the center of the basket.

Cheers

another_jim wrote:Are they distributing as they thwack, by rotating the PF? I have seen that, but never tried it.

Maybe a few degrees side to side. But nothing that drew my attention.

Jim

Arpi wrote:That seems to be the case with good grinders. It helps even more if you center a perfect mountain in the center of the basket.

I think both shops were using Robur's. It did look like there was an effort made to keep the mound centered, as you say.

Jim

That is pretty much what I've been doing for awhile now; first with the SJ & now with a Major. I do move the basket around while dosing & try to end up with a nice centered pile. I swear I get much better pours & better tasting shots now then when I used to level/stir/ect.

Dave which grinder are you using? I've not had much luck with this (in the past) on my Super Jolly.

I find this to be no surprise at all.

JimG wrote:the baristas... pull great shots after no leveling of the coffee... No tapping, no Stockfleth, no Chicago chop...

None of these maneuvers should have any impact on distribution of the coffee grounds, by which I mean the presence of clumps and irregularities within the mass of coffee grounds that may lead to channeling. In fact, as you observe, by touching the coffee grounds via such a leveling maneuver (especially tapping), you may create an irregularity in the distribution.

Tamping and the 9 Bar of subsequent pressure will spread the coffee grounds out evenly in the basket.

Rather, I suspect these maneuvers simply serve to make the dose weight consistent from shot to shot.

TimEggers wrote:Dave which grinder are you using? I've not had much luck with this (in the past) on my Super Jolly.

Are you using stock burrs or the Duraniums? I found I got much better results with the stock burrs.

JohnB. wrote:Are you using stock burrs or the Duraniums? I found I got much better results with the stock burrs.

I am using the stock burrs as well.

Jim

JimG wrote:Anyone else made this "discovery?"

Yes. Discussed here: http://www.home-barista.com/tips/is-lev ... t9639.html

As a follow-up I should add that I have also stopped leveling and distributing with my Cimbali grinder. Slowing down the thwack-thwack-thwack allows the coffee to drop down without throwing to the left. I usually rap the portafilter on the dosing fork about half way through the grind.

Marshall wrote:Yes. Discussed here: http://www.home-barista.com/tips/is-lev ... t9639.html

Oh ......

Yep, count me in.. I do the same. I used to do the WDT and "make" a mound just by my stirring action, then left off the cup, and tamp.

Now I dont use the yogurt cup, just some slower thwackage, a straight down tap of the PF on my tamping mat, and a straight down tamp, no twist/rap/polish.

One Thing I have noticed, however, is for me anyway, this doesnt work with a flat tamper. I get sidewall channeling and donuts extractions unless I use a convex tamper.

Grinder is a Mazzer Major. Works on my stock ridged E-61 double basket, and my ridgeless Synesso 14gr.

Oh, and for the triple basket, this doesnt work.. at least for me. For the triple, I WDT, and then tamp the mound I have created.. No leveling after stirring. Triple basket I use is the La Marzocco triple from Chris'.

JmanEspresso wrote:One Thing I have noticed, however, is for me anyway, this doesnt work with a flat tamper. I get sidewall channeling and donuts extractions unless I use a convex tamper.

My tamper is flat, made by Greg Pullman, fitted to the double basket.

Jim

JimG wrote:I watched the baristas at Ninth Street and Gimme pull great shots after no leveling of the coffee. They simply tamped the mounded coffee just as it came from the doser. No tapping, no Stockfleth, no Chicago chop, no nuttin'. Just grind, thwack, and tamp the mounded pile of coffee.

Do you know if the Gimme and Ninth Street baristas happened to be using a dosered Anfim at the time? I've asked a Gimme (Mott St.) barista about this. He said that because the timer is used to set the shot flow (grind size is not adjusted, only dose), touching the pile of grounds once out of the doser will defeat the purpose of the precise grinder setting as some of the coffee may end up on the counter and not in the basket (and to add to that, the Anfim doser works perfectly enough to make a pile that needs no distribution).

aindfan wrote:Do you know if the Gimme and Ninth Street baristas happened to be using a dosered Anfim at the time?

Doserless Robur E and Super Jolly at Ninth Street in Chelsea Market.
Doserless Robur E and dosered Anfim at Gimme. Said they use the Anfim for milk drinks.
Two Roburs (one doserless) and a Super Jolly at Cafe Grumpy.


Gimme grinders