Hi. I have read about every article I can find, have searched some topics for help, and I'm making .... passable espresso. I just bought a Gaggia Classic. I *think* I've gotten pretty good at grinding/tamping to come up with 2 oz in 25 seconds, but there is still something off and thin about my espresso, and it turns too blond really early most of the time.

A thread I read earlier lead me to believe that my temperature might be too low, and not having any styrofoam cups at home, I did the best I could to check the temperature: I stuck my food thermometer (its faster and more accurate than my milk thermometer) into the warmed shotglass as the espresso was pouring. It was 160F. This is with a solid 10 minute warm up and warmed portafilter, and the "ready" light was on. I know this is not the same temp as the water starting the brewing, but it is low, right?

And if it is low, do I have a faulty machine, or is this just the limitation of a economic model?

And if this is just the limitation of my machine, do I "temperature surf" by flipping the steam switch for a short time, to fool it into getting warmer, then go back to brew? I keep reading about "temp surfing" and I get the idea that it is manipulating your machine and timing of the heating cycle to optimize brew temperature, but I dont get the details of how that is accomplished with this machine.

Thanks.

and no, at least for now, I'm not either at all comfortable knowing how to add a PID, nor do I want to spend more money on this project quite yet.

I can make up from your earlier posts here that you've got a Vario to grind the beans with (You can put that information in your profile, makes it easier for other members), so it's not the grinder. The Classic is a capable machine from what I've read. You say you're pretty good at dosing/grinding, the machines are both new so they are clean, which leaves only one M.

What beans are you using?

anne wrote: I *think* I've gotten pretty good at grinding/tamping to come up with 2 oz in 25 seconds, but there is still something off and thin about my espresso, and it turns too blond really early most of the time.

This statement is self-contradictory. If the stream "turns blond really early most of the time", you cannot conclude that you have "gotten pretty good at grinding/tamping". With the basket properly dosed, and the beans properly ground and tamped, the stream should run for 20-30 seconds before blonding.

So, let me offer a very simple adjustment which can be refined to suit your tastes later: grind more finely, using a much lighter tamp, and dose the basket heaping full with a fluffy, fine grind. Distribute NSEW. Tamp very lightly, barely more than the weight of the tamper, just so you have headroom in the basket. This ultra-light tamp eliminates overcompaction issues. You can always tamp more heavily later. Trust me, more than this amount of tamping is unnecessary for an excellent extraction, though some find a heavier tamp desirable. It is important that we eliminate overcompaction and channeling variables since they can cause, or contribute to, early blonding. Keep going slightly finer on the grind, without tamping more heavily, until you get 20 seconds of flow without blonding.

anne wrote: It was 160F. This is with a solid 10 minute warm up and warmed portafilter, and the "ready" light was on.

You may have to give this machine considerably longer than 10 minutes to warm up. Try tripling that time.

Thank you both-

Bluecold- I'll add that info- did not know I could do that, and it makes a lot of sense. And I have no doubt which M is at fault.....didn't mean to sound like I was blaming my poor, new shiny machine who is still somehow putting up with me.....I just dont want to be such a noob that I dont realize for 3 months that I got a machine with a faulty boiler or thermostat.

And at the moment I'm using a bean whose name I have forgotten, but it came from Java City. I know that may make you wince, but I have a friend who works for them in distribution, and she gave them to me as a gift fresh from the roaster last week.

Timo- youre right regarding the contradictory statement of course. I should have said that it OFTEN blonds early, but even when it does not, often the the final crema is very light in color and thin, and the espresso is not syrupy. So even when I do get a good extraction time, there is still "thinness". I'll try to tamp less as you said, and see what changes. I know I had channeling in the beginning, but since I was not seeing any "pinholes" holes in the puck, I thought I gotten beyond that. I have to fess-up and also include that I'm still waiting for a real tamper- ordering one today- and using that stupid plastic thing.

Off to try again......

anne wrote:And at the moment I'm using a bean whose name I have forgotten, but it came from Java City. I know that may make you wince, but I have a friend who works for them in distribution, and she gave them to me as a gift fresh from the roaster last week.

If you have good shot timing, and you're paying attention as you seem to be, given a setup like yours I'd hazard to bet that getting the results you describe is probably the result of the bean selection. I've never heard of your roaster, but generic names like "Java City" generally set off huge alarm bells on my good-coffee-sensor. And that's not always right, either—one of the excellent coffee places here in Houston is "Tuscany Coffee," a sad generic name if I've ever heard one (guy that runs the place inherited it from the previous owners).

Anyway, back to beans, Sacramento is way too close to some of the best coffee roasters in the world to settle for anything less, in my opinion. I am sure there are some excellent specialty roasters in the city, or at least shops where you can get beans from specialty roasters. Maybe someone can point you to such shops? Barring that, I would recommend ordering coffee from one of our favorite roasters. The list is California-heavy, I think, and you'll have lots to choose from. In the end, I think you'll find that $15-18/lb is a pretty fair price for amazing coffee, considering how much better it is than the cheap stuff.

Selecting coffee in this fashion may be kind of expensive, but it's an important step when you start out. It will help us help you (as we'll be able to rule out bad/old coffee as your problem), and once you get it down you'll have a good feel for what coffee is supposed to be like, and will be better able to identify the poor roasters in your town and avoid them.

Will do. I have also used the coffee that came with the Gaggia, from Wholelattelove. (Monaco? and Buzzopolis?) I did not greatly care for the Monaco, either as espresso or brewed coffee, and I have used a couple of Peets beans.

Java City started as a local Sacramento coffee Co, and has grown quickly - which should speak to their quality, except that I now associate them with grocery-store and gas station coffees, and they are nothing to write home about.

I'd just say get some Intelligentsia or Ecco espresso blend, and use it within 2 weeks of the roast date to get your feet wet. I can't vouch for the WholeLatteLove included coffee, but unless it has a roast date of <2 weeks before you got it, I think it's safe to say that's not a fresh coffee experience, no matter what steps are made to preserve it. You can find a lot of discussion about that on HB if you look, e.g. this thread.

Unfortunately with coffee, there's little if any correlation between growth and quality. The biggest, most 'successful' coffee roasters in the world make some really awful coffee. I keep my eyes out for roasters that are heavy on pushing their coffee through sadly vacuous terms like smooth, rich, bold, fair-trade, ethical, etc. Roasters who "get it" talk about freshness for starters, but the real points come when your roaster talks knowledgeably about coffee origins, specific tastes of specific coffees, the importance of using care in every stage from bean to cup, etc. As always, the proof is in the proverbial pudding, so you can't truly judge a roaster till you've had their coffee.

At the same time, again for the sake of discussion it's best to start out with a 'known quantity,' something that members here consider high quality and have familiarity with. There are so many unknowns when it comes to discussing the details of espresso preparation over the internet, it's always best to minimize as many as possible.

anne wrote:Thank you both-

Bluecold- I'll add that info- did not know I could do that, and it makes a lot of sense. And I have no doubt which M is at fault.....didn't mean to sound like I was blaming my poor, new shiny machine who is still somehow putting up with me.....

And I didn't mean to blame you. The last part of my first paragraph was alluding to Miscela. I reiterated "What beans are you using" to try and make sure you didn't blame yourself. Didn't work out too well i guess.

Now THAT is funny.......I do still think that the major missing M is ME.......

I have a tamper on order from Wholelattelove, a pound of reserve espresso on order from Ecco, and a 12 oz milk frother coming from espressozone. Will post again when those variables are managed.

Blond early?

(1) Grind Finer
(2) Dose Higher (more weight)
(3) Get fresher beans
(4) Lower your machine pressure

Get yourself a decent 0.1g scale and try all 3 of those. If the package doesn't have the roast date on it, assume it's not on there because it's probably about 3 months ago. Often this coffee will make lots of gushers...grinding really fine and overdosing like crazy might give you something darker, but the problem will then become taste.

The real question is, if you cut your shot early just as it blonds, does the shot taste good? If so, #1 and 2 will probably even you out nicely. If not new beans from a known roaster on these boards should make all problems magically disappear. If not...sad to say your machine might actually need it's OPV tuned...but I could be wrong on that last one.