Hi all,

This is my first post on here so hope I'm in the right section etc. I just bought my first espresso machine, a second-hand Gaggia Classic. Been grinding beans using my Gaggia MM on its finest setting which is producing better than expected results. I'm going to buy a 58mm tamper but for now I'm using that useless plastic thing Gaggia supply with the machine. The beans I'm using are from Waitrose.

Ok, these are my problems:

1. Water flows over the filter basket whilst pouring.
2. The shots seem to be really small in quantity. I use around 14-16g in a double basket but only get about 35ml (1.2 US fl. oz) liquid max. This really concerns me. As far as I am aware I am temperature surfing correctly.
3. I am aware that the grinder I'm using is nowhere near what I should be using and to compensate I have been varying my tamping anywhere from brutally hard to very light, just 5lbs or so. Am I right in saying that to compensate for a poor grind you should tamp hard? My best and most steady results are with an extremely light tamp... But even with this it's normally more of a trickle than a steady poor and, as I said, only produces 35ml of coffee maximum.
4. I'm unsure as to how hard to lock in the portafilter. After reading last night that it's important the machine is level I took my spirit level to it and found it was off. I placed two two pence pieces under its right feet which has made a difference. The only problem is when I have to lock in the portafilter, as it's such a small machine, any force will move it. I have combated this by slightly lifting the underside and holding tightly which allows me to apply more force. The problem is that it moves it from sitting on the coins (and speed is of the essence once up to temperature)!

Last night I took off the shower screen and the thing above it attaches to and gave them both a really thorough clean. They were absolutely filthy. I am going to buy some Gaggia descaler and Puly Caff for backflushing and may also replace some parts like the shower screen, group seal and basket. Will this make a tremendous difference to the coffee flow?

Also, I was thinking about buying a single spout for the PF. Does the existing one just 'unscrew'? It's on there extremely tight and will not budge at all. I don't want to break it, of course, so was wondering how it's replaced?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and appreciate any help you can give. I am a coffee newb (although I have done a fair bit of research) so feel free to treat me as the idiot I am.

Cheers,
Josh

I wouldn't be as concerned about the amount of liquid (especially if you aren't counting crema with your 1.2oz measure) rather than how it tastes. A 14-16 gram dose is a little low for a 58mm basket... but if thats right for that machine (im not sure) then 1.2oz really isn't that low imo. You might up dose and coarsen the grind to get more volume, but only do that if you find it improves the taste.

But very majorly, if the machine is so dirty that you cant get a seal between the filter basket and the group then its not worth doing anything until you fix that problem. It's also not worth worrying about anything until you get a real tamper.

joshem wrote:1. Water flows over the filter basket whilst pouring.

Have you replaced the group gasket yet? Unless there's something else (like grounds on the top of the filter basket, for example) preventing a good seal, water shouldn't flow over the basket. That's a symptom of a bad group gasket.

joshem wrote:3. I am aware that the grinder I'm using is nowhere near what I should be using and to compensate I have been varying my tamping anywhere from brutally hard to very light, just 5lbs or so. Am I right in saying that to compensate for a poor grind you should tamp hard?

I don't think tamping really compensates for a grind that's not right. I might be alone in that sentiment, and I'm sure others will say so if I am.

joshem wrote:4. I'm unsure as to how hard to lock in the portafilter.

Just lock it to about 6:00. I don't think speed is as important as you believe, at least given the kind of defects you're reporting.

joshem wrote:Last night I took off the shower screen and the thing above it attaches to and gave them both a really thorough clean. They were absolutely filthy. I am going to buy some Gaggia descaler and Puly Caff for backflushing and may also replace some parts like the shower screen, group seal and basket. Will this make a tremendous difference to the coffee flow?

The shower screen and group gasket seem like they really could. FWIW, I only ever used citric acid to descale my Classic. It worked fine. I never felt the need for official Gaggia descaler.

In short, I'd change the gasket (because it almost certainly sounds like you need to) and the screen (because that's cheap and easy, and you may very well need to) but wouldn't fuss a lot more without changing the grinder. I think that's your real problem, and probably not easily overcome with any of the other things you're discussing. Also, I don't know Waitrose, but if this is them, I suspect their beans are stale. Have you tried something from Square Mile or one of the UK roasters on this list, making sure the beans were roasted in the past couple of weeks? If you haven't, that coupled with a new group gasket might change your outlook a great deal. The addition of an espresso-suitable grinder almost certainly will.

Thanks for your help. When you say replace the group gasket, do you mean the seal: http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd6005.html?

All these bits and bobs are pretty cheap and so I'll probably replace them all (shower screen, seal, baskets etc.)

At the moment I am loathed to buy freshly roasted beans for two reasons: 1. money, 2. as I don't yet have a decent grinder I would prefer not to waste good beans on my current grinder. Yeah, that is the supermarket. I know that they're not going to be very fresh but I am more than happy with the results so far. I don't get a lot of crema, just a film of it over the coffee but then I don't expect much with my set up. I'm going to save for a decent grinder, a Rocky or something. I have used Has Bean several times in the past for buying green beans for my i-Roast and cafetiere. I've found the cost a bit of a waste to be honest being a novice and all. Roasting is something I think I'll (definitely) come back to later.

I got into coffee through living in France for seven months and really miss my espressos each day. I would like my shots to be around the 50ml range for the moment so I can enjoy them a bit longer. It's not that I dislike the small amounts I'm producing but I would prefer to experiment with ristrettos etc. later on.

I will look into buying some citric acid - probably be a hell of a lot cheaper too. How do you go about descaling with it? Method and amount used etc?

Thanks you two and keep the advice coming.

You will never have a clue how you are doing if you don't start out with fresh beans. There is no point in trying anything else if step 1 is not followed.

joshem wrote:Thanks for your help. When you say replace the group gasket, do you mean the seal: http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd6005.html?

All these bits and bobs are pretty cheap and so I'll probably replace them all (shower screen, seal, baskets etc.)

That looks like it. Here's a decent guide, with photos, for replacing it.

joshem wrote:At the moment I am loathed to buy freshly roasted beans for two reasons: 1. money, 2. as I don't yet have a decent grinder I would prefer not to waste good beans on my current grinder.

I understand this, but I'd argue for trying it at least once with your current grinder, though, just so you know how far off it is. You might be surprised. If it's no better, just use them in a press pot (cafetiere) or something.

joshem wrote:I'm going to save for a decent grinder, a Rocky or something.

Good idea. Shop around, though, before you settle on that one. I don't know what prices are in the UK, but the $400 a rocky sells for can buy you a better grinder here.

joshem wrote:I will look into buying some citric acid - probably be a hell of a lot cheaper too. How do you go about descaling with it? Method and amount used etc?

I generally add a liter of warm water to the reservoir and 30 mL of citric acid powder, then stir until it's dissolved. Turn the machine on, and immediately (before it's had a chance to warm up) run 250mL through the group. Turn it off and let it sit for 10-15 minutes. Then run 250mL through the steam wand and immediately turn it off and let it sit for another 10-15 minutes. Repeat, for group and steam wand. (Add a little water if necessary to keep the hose from sucking air at the bottom of the tank.)

Then fill the reservoir with fresh water and do it again, waiting a few minutes between 250mL runs, alternating between group and steam wand.

This lets the solution sit in the boiler and steam valve for a bit, and makes sure you don't overtax the pump. You may need to run one more tank of fresh water through afterwards, to make sure you've gotten all of the solution out.

If your machine is really nasty, you may want to do this more than once.

Powdered citric acid is much cheaper than the branded descalers. I got a very large supply for free just by asking around on a local discussion list as to where I could buy it. One of the list members had purchased so much of it so inexpensively that he wouldn't take any money for a pound of it.

Seriously, though, once the machine is cleaned up and the gaskets replaced, you should give fresh coffee at least one try. Your grinder isn't up to the task, but it might be much closer than you think if you start with good ingredients.

Thanks a lot. I have some green beans in my cupboard so I may roast them up tomorrow and use them in a few days' time. I'm looking at second-hand Mazzer Super Jollys as they go at a good price in the UK... although I think my family will freak when they see the size of the thing! If I can get an alternative to that huge hopper I'd be a happy bunny.

Think I might give the citric acid a go as Amazon does fairly small quantities for a decent price.

Maybe I should go to bed as it is 3.30am... No deficiency in caffeine department that's for sure!

Thanks mate.

joshem wrote:I'm looking at second-hand Mazzer Super Jollys as they go at a good price in the UK... although I think my family will freak when they see the size of the thing! If I can get an alternative to that huge hopper I'd be a happy bunny.

For single dosing, you can, of course, run it without any hopper at all. I think the mini's short hoppers fit, if you really want to have a hopper.

A used SJ would be an excellent choice. Make sure you get new burrs for it. I use a canning funnel instead of a hopper, but you could even eliminate that to gain family acceptance.